Deposition of Ali Alexander, (Dec. 9, 2021)/5:25pm
Q So just to make sure. Did you produce records regarding your payments related to January 5th and what Stop the Steal—
A I believe so.
Q —paid for? Okay. I'm just asking, because I haven't seen it.
And it's your understanding that Cindy had a donor or a client, but do you know who that was?
A I—I—I don't know definitively who it is. I have seen press reports recently of who it may be, but I did not know at the time, and I did not ask.
Q Okay. And it's your understanding that Alex Jones also paid for events on the 5th?
A Yes. And—yeah. That—that was what he said, actually, is what I should say. That was what he said.
Q Okay. And do you know a woman named Julie Fancelli?
A I don't know her.
Q You don't know her. Were you—was her name mentioned to you by anyone?
A If—I don't believe so. I don't believe so, but, if it was, it would have been in passing. I know that I, you know, didn't probe, haven't done a call to my knowledge with her. I haven't done a call with someone where I—where she may have secretly been on the phone call that I'm aware of. I've stayed away from all of that.
We did small-dollar fundraising on Twitter using DonorBox, and I paid for my crap, and everyone else had to pay for theirs.
Ms. Okay.
Mr. We can take a break.
Mr. Yeah, we can take a break.
[Recess.]
Mr. . So it's 5:25, and we're back on the record.
- BY MS.
Q If we can turn really quickly to Exhibit 26, and if we could turn to page 113. think it's the big text string. There is a text in the middle of the page to Ed Martin, and it looks like—I believe this is Mr. Alexander. You say, can you check to see if we had a $6,000 wire tomorrow to the C3. What is the C3?
A His group, the Eagle Forum, was acting as a sponsor for collecting Stop the Steal funds that could be appropriated for that use, and so, all of that money, you know, was kept at Eagle Forum.
Q So that's the Eagle Forum's 501(c)(3)? That's what you're referencing?
A Yeah, I believe so.
Q Okay.
A I—they have a—they have, like, an umbrella of organizations there, but, yeah, I believe so.
Q Okay. No. That makes sense.
Earlier, when we were talking about the deplatforming, I want to be clear there, what I'm talking about isn't Twitter or social media. I'm talking about when we were talking about, like, the payment processors. I think you said donations couldn't be processed.
Did they tell you why you were being deplatformed?
A I—January 6 was a traumatic event. And then, as I was being obliterated online, I didn't read most of the emails that were coming in. I've watched these type of campaigns go on before, and, you know, they're partisan, so some organizations will send you an email, and then others won't. And some will make it up in their terms of service, and then some will create a new policy and then implement it.
Q But you believe there may have been emails from the platforms to you explaining the why of why you were deplatformed?
A Some of them.
Q Okay.
A Like, I know, for example, I believe that YouTube did. You know, what you'll do is you'll get—I went from zero strikes to three strikes in an hour, and it was a retroactive way of punishing me and having plausible deniability.
Q Were you fundraising on YouTube, or was that just—
A No.
Q —content?
A No. I lost it because I'm—I'm me.
Q No. I'm sorry. What I mean is if you were deplatformed from content, from posting—I'm asking about, like, the fundraising deplatform. So were you fundraising on YouTube, or that was just you couldn't post videos?
A Yeah, I believe I couldn't post videos—
Q Okay.
A —or something like that.
Q Did you ever have any conversations verbally—I—not emails, with any of the payment processors as to why you were deplatformed?
A I don't remember.
Q Okay. Do you remember using the fundraising site GiveSendGo after January 6th?
A Yes.
Q And why did you start fundraising with them?
A It was a Christian—it was a Christian site. DonorBox had cut us off, but Stripe had not, and so my—your Stripe—you know what Stripe is? Yeah. Okay. So I had to move it somewhere.
Q And did you ever have any issues with GiveSendGo in terms of them deplatforming you?
A I lost access to my Stripe account, so I couldn't process donations, and they've—they've either come up with a secondary process that I haven't used, or they haven't figured that out.
Q Okay. So, when you lost your Stripe account, you couldn't raise funds, but you could still stay on there and get, like, the prayers and, like, the—
A Yep.
Q —the nonfund things?
Okay. So do you still have that, the GiveSendGo?
A Yes. I believe so.
Q And it's related to Stop the Steal specifically?
A No. It was related to my personal safety.
Q Were you using—so was there a time period where you were on GiveSendGo using Stripe before Stripe got cut off?
A I would have had to use Stripe to process the donation.
Q During that time, were the funds from Stripe going to you personally, or just Stop the Steal?
A I think I—I think I lost two Stripe accounts, one for Stop the Steal, and one for myself.
Q Okay. At some point—and I'm not sure when—let me check—you started putting—let me pull it up. I don't want to get it wrong.
There was a ways to donate, and I actually don't—this may have been as of—sometime right after January 6th. I think you said that the payment processors had cut you off from receiving money, and you would only be able to accept cryptocurrency? Do you know how you started doing that?
A No, I don't recall.
Q There was a—I think a ways to donate link that included Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ether, Money Button, PayPal, Cash App, and an Amazon Wish List.
A So that sounds like the donate page to my personal site, alialexander.org, you know, that's a few years old.
Q It's a few years old?
A Yeah, I believe so. My personal site? That's, again, where my content locker was, where, if my existing customers and people who liked my content wanted to give me extra money or whatever, they had different ways to donate.
Q You've been taking cryptocurrency for years?
A Yeah.
Q Not everyone's that knowledgeable about cryptocurrency. Sorry. That was just a moment of marvel.
A Did you—would you have been the person to process these—the—your personal donations to the alialexander.com website, or did anybody else process the funds that were donated?
Q I don't know. I'm actually really horrible with—with all of that stuff. My intention was to just provide optionality for people. Most of the time, they don't use it.
A Did you ever collect any funds raised from the cryptocurrency?
Q Related to Stop the Steal?
A Uh-huh.
A I don't—I don't believe so.
Q Did you ever end up using any exchanges at all for—related to cryptocurrency?
A Related to Stop the Steal? I do not believe so.
Q So that would have been just like personal financial activity to the extent that you used it?
A Yeah, I believe so.
Q Was that coin-based?
A I—I—yeah, I have a—I still have a coin-based account.
Q Do you have any idea how much money Stop the Steal has raised since it was created in November 2020?
A I unfortunately don't. And, in trying to come up with this information, we didn't even discover that our bank account at SunTrust was shut down. So I found that out a few weeks—well, 4 or 5 weeks ago. And I was told that it was shut down October 24th, I believe so.
And so, you know, it survived the FBI investigation and didn't survive this committee's investigation.
Q Do you have any—do you have any cold storage wallets, paper wallets, or public addresses that contain funds related to Stop the Steal?
A I don't know. I know that I, like, have, like, really outdated, like, ledger USB things, and—and I've never used it. I may have had like a friend set it up for me. But, you know, I can't—I can't recall past that. I buy a lot of little gadgets, you know. I think I bought this thing called Everykey once that John McAfee came up with, and it's—you know, they just sit and collect dust.
Q When you say these "sit and collect dust," so you're not using them?
A Certainly not actively. And, if I would have used it, then I wouldn't have recalled using it. It's—seems like a risky endeavor, like—and I'm scared to screw it up. And so, you know, sometimes—you know, it's like something I want to sit down and take 6 hours to make sure I bulletproof now, but—but yeah.
Q Well, I guess let me ask: To the extent that any of the funds were raised when you were using these links for crypto, where did that go, or who was administering that for you?
A I administer my personal crypto. I don't know that Stop the Steal, or January 6th, or anything like that raised crypto. I know that—again, after I'm deplatformed and you read that message that, you know, I guess is from me, that's not Stop the Steal-related. I'm not raising money for election integrity or politics, I was raising money for my safety, relocation, et cetera, et cetera.
Q So, after the events on January 6th, are you raising money for Stop the Steal, LLC?
A After January 6th? I believe that we tried to or attempted to, but we've run into problems with SMS sending or email sending, and I'm not sure. I don't want to speak out of turn. We could have gone through multiple credit card processors. I'm not sure. And so, you know, it—it's all kind of like a blurry line. Yeah, it's all kind of—it's all kind of blurry.
Q When you were deplatformed from the payment processors, what made you turn to cryptocurrency?
A Well, I—like I said, personally, I, you know, have been a big fan of crypto for—for years, and—and so, you know, if you can't—if you can't process in, you know, cash or credit card or whatever, then all you have is, you know, crypto.
And there are a lot of people around the country who were concerned about my safety. I was concerned about my safety, and I obviously wasn't working, and so, you know—you know, people say, Oh, you know, do you have this? Do you have that? And a lot of times the people who say that don't do anything for you. They're like, you better have a—like I hate Ethereum, and everybody was like, you better have a, you know, Ether Wallet, and I'm just like, you know, what am I going to do with it?
Q Did you ever have any crypto other than Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Ether?
A I'm not sure.
Q Did you ever own any Monero, Zcash or Dash?
A Related to Stop the Steal, no. I don't believe so. Not at all.
Q Personally?
A Personally? I may have, but most of that list would have to be a no.
Q I think earlier you said that Stop the Steal was at SunTrust, and they shut you down in October. Was that the only bank that you ever used for Stop the Steal funds?
A I'm not sure.
Q Is that the primary one that you're familiar with?
A That is the primary one I'm familiar with.
Q Okay. Who was responsible for tracking the accounting for Stop the Steal, LLC?
Ms. Did you already ask—I'm sorry.
Mr. No.
The Witness. Unfortunately, like, no, we were moving too fast, so it's something that falls under—under my purview, and—but oftentimes, like, if Stop the Steal couldn't do something, then I would say, Okay, well, I'll loan the money, or I'll pay for this, and—and, you know, like small things, like, you know, posters or an Uber ride or something like that.
And so—because we didn't have like multiple cards floating around. It was more like, you know, like just get flights, get hotels, get signs, keep moving, you know, faster than we could.
- BY
Q And I apologize. I have not seen your production, but did you produce the Stop the Steal, LLC accounting expenditures?
A I don't have access to a SunTrust—the SunTrust online banking or anything like that. I don't have access to any—I never got mailed a statement—a monthly statement or anything like that. So—so I provided 100 percent of everything I have with SunTrust, which is—which was the piece of paper that I had, and yeah.
Q Am I—you didn't have access to the SunTrust bank account for Stop the Steal, LLC, or you don't have it now?
A Before the—when I tried logging in—
Q Right, because it's shut down now?
A Yeah, to comply with this—
Q But you had access before October, right? You were on the account?
A Yeah. I—I was on—yeah.
Q Was there anyone else who had access to that account?
A I initially authorized my friend, Daniel Bostic, to open it up, and—and so he opened it up, and there -- you know, there is not a SunTrust in Texas, so that's why I didn't have immediate access. I didn't have an online login, and why I was in the dark.
- BY MR. :
Q And, Mr. Alexander, just following up on a comment you made—and apologies if you talked about this, but I don't think so. Have you had interactions with the FBI or DOJ over January 6th?
A The only interactions that I've had with the FBI in relation to January 6 has been handled through counsel.
Q So—okay. But I'm just asking the question—not privileged. Just have you sat down and been interviewed by the FBI?
The Witness. Can I consult with my counsel?
Mr. Sure. You can step out. That's fine.
[Discussion off the record.]
The Witness. No, I've—I have not been interviewed by the FBI in connection to the January 6 Capitol attack that I had nothing to do with.
- BY MR.
Q How about by the Department of Justice?
A No.
Q No. Have you provided any information about January 6th to law enforcement? I'm just trying to, broadly speaking.
A Yeah. Have I—I don't recall if I authorized or what I—what I authorized counsel to, you know, give or not give the FBI, but I myself have never—
Q And the reason I'm asking is you brought it up. Is it your understanding that the FBI requested certain things from you, or did they execute a search warrant?
A My understanding is that several of my vendors and associates have been harassed or targeted by the FBI, and I was also placed on a—not the no-fly list, but the SSSS list, so the secondary selective screening, something. It's mandatory selective screening.
And I'm trying to think what else. And then I'm aware of—you know, because of reporting of threat tags that have been assigned to people like me and the FBI's, you know, internal database, so yeah. That's—that's what I referenced.
Q So whatever your counsel has done with law enforcement has been in the context of these—it sounds like restrictions placed on you, or tags on you. Is that what we're talking about?
A No. I mean, additionally, you know, my counsel had the counsel who is not here—
Q Yeah.
A —had, you know, a conversation with the FBI.
Q Okay. Is it your understanding that you're a target of, or that they're threatening criminal charges against you for anything?
Mr. Kamenar. I'm going to have to object to that, because that calls for speculation and—
Mr. Just what's been told. Not speculation. Whether they—and it's common practice, or can be for DOJ to say whether someone is a target, to convey it to someone. That's all I'm asking.
Mr. Kamenar. Well, again, I think he's talking about conversations with his counsel who is not here, but, you know, target's a specific term—
Mr. It is.
Mr. Kamenar. —I suppose, so I don't know whether he can speak—
Mr. Just his perception. He can't speak for DOJ.
Mr. Kamenar. Perception?
Mr. Just what he understands has been conveyed from—
The Witness. I'd really not—I'd like not to speculate on it.
- BY :
Q So you don't have a perception about it?
A My perception is that I have been, how I've characterized in my opening statement, targeted in the Ali term. But what you guys are talking about is why I defer to counsel and let counsel talk to the FBI, because that's above my pay grade.
Q All right. Okay. I think we're clear. Just the point is, to your knowledge, you haven't been told that you're being charged by the government or they're looking to charge you?
A Correct.
Q Okay. That's all.
Ms. I found it.
- BY :
Q I think you posted that one of your donation methods was ?
A Uh-huh.
Q Did you create that?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And then—
A And that's a personal non-Stop the Steal, non-election integrity, non-Jan texting, but something I wanted to answer.
Q So what do you take donations for for that? When you say GiveSendGo has disabled my ability to take donations for the time being, you're hoping to get it restored, Bitcoin, Money Button, I'm out of options, Christ is king, what are those donations for?
A For religious purposes, spiritual purposes. Sometimes media purposes, like I said, when I, like, made a documentary on a Member of Congress, and—and then, you know, people just like love me as a public figure. This goes back 10 years—10-plus years. People, you know, all across the country just, you know, like me and want, you know, Hey, go buy a steak, go buy a burger, or something like that.
It's not—it predates Stop the Steal. It's not related to Stop the Steal. Money Button was not created after Stop the Steal. And they ultimately shut down my account because of pressure on Twitter.
Q Are you familiar with Bit Burner?
A Bit Burner?
Q Uh-huh.
A Nope.
Q And you've never used it?
A I don't believe so.
Q Okay.
A I play with a lot of products and stuff, and, you know, test a lot of things, but I—you know, it's not ringing a bell.
Ms. . Those are my questions.
- BY MR.
Q You just mentioned your opening statement. So your opening statement this morning, you claimed that you demand nonviolence at your events, didn't you, correct? Is that correct?
A I do.
Q And, during that opening statement, you also claimed that you demand nonviolence among your membership and leadership. Is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q And you also—I think the third thing you claimed was that you demand nonviolence among your associates. Is that correct as well?
A I—yes.
Q So do you recall, in the lead-up to January 6th, in a Periscope video where you said, We've got to punch the left—and I quote—"We've got to punch the left in the nose. You must fight. They will kill us."
How does this statement—explain how this statement does not encourage violence?
A I don't recall making that statement on Periscope, and I don't have my Periscope account to authenticate this. It actually sounds like a play on words from Representative Maxine Waters, or Speaker Nancy Pelosi, that I'm playing with.
Q And, on December 19th—you talked about the rally in Arizona earlier today. You said to that crowd, We don't throw bricks. Not yet. Oh, yes, not yet.
So, again, is it still your testimony here today that you don't advocate for nonviolence?
A That is the—the literal interpretation of that is advocating for nonviolence right there.
Q Okay. And, at this same rally, you said, We will not go quietly. We will shut this country down if we have to.
A Yes.
Q So saying we will shut this country down if we have to is not advocating for violence?
A That's definitely not violence. That's talking about economic activity, parting away from the system. This is a phrase that I actually borrowed from like—there is groups out there on the left, like, by any means necessary or stuff like that, and so it's just a tool of rhetoric, and it's talking about economic activity.
Q Uh-huh. And, on the morning of January 6th—we talked about this earlier—you tweeted 1776, right? So, for you, the election had been stolen, so it was time for the people to respond. And, in 1776, being the year that our country declared independence, it was a call to arms.
So, leading up to January 6, you're promoting the imagery to the Revolutionary War rather than to a peaceful movement, such as the civil rights movement.
So, Mr. Alexander, I want to go back to the text that we talked about earlier from Ms. Wren. It was at 12:59 on January 6, where she said, I think you should leave. This will come down on you hard.
She didn't say us. She didn't say the movement. She didn't say Stop the Steal or Women for America First. She said you. After receiving that text, show me where you responded back asking why this attack on the Capitol would come back on you hard. Where did you ask her that question?
A That's a very subjective interpretation that I don't agree with.
Q So you didn't push back on her assertion?
A She was a friend who was concerned about me in a direct text to me.
Q And, in fact, after she sent you that text, you left the Capitol complex, didn't you, afterwards?
A I made the decision when I left the Capitol complex.
Q And you made the wildprotest.com web page blank, didn't you?
A We wanted to take down anything that could confuse the association between our peaceful demonstration and the peaceful Lot 8 with anything that was going on inside of the Capitol.
Q And you removed the coalition partners from the marchtosavetrump.com website, didn't you?
A I believe so, for the same reason that we didn't want to be confused with the violent actors.
Q And so that brings us back to the point, right? Why didn't you push back on Ms. Wren's assertion that this would come down on you hard?
A I was escaping tear gas.
Q It's because you knew she was right, right? You knew that—
A No.
Q —some portion of this attack on the Capitol would come back to you, because, for the previous 3 months and leading up to January 6, you had advocated for a revolutionary war? You had tweeted 1776, and that message came to fruition on January 6th, didn't it?
A No.
Ms. Can we play the—is that a—can we play the—
Mr. No.
Ms. No?
Mr. Do you have anything else?
Mr. Fine. Good.
Mr. Do you have anything else, ?
Ms. No.
Mr. Mr. Alexander, thank you for coming in today pursuant to the subpoena for this deposition.
With that, we will go into a recess at—the time being 5:49 p.m. eastern time.
The Witness. Thank you.
Mr. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 5:50 p.m., the deposition was completed.]