Wikisource:Scriptorium

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Proposals

Request that English Wikisource be added to Commons deletion notification bot

Per an earlier discussion, it sounds like it would be useful for Wikisource to be notified when files in use here are nominated for deletion on Commons. The Commons deletion notification bot run by the WMF Community Tech team provides such a service. We just have to have local consensus for using the bot and then make a request on Phabricator. If you have any opinion about this, please make it known below. Nosferattus (talk) 02:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support - not only useful for copyright reasons but for the fact that for almost every Index, there are hundreds of page namespace pages that would have to get mass-deleted / mass-moved etc. every time something is deleted, so better to know ahead of time to prepare our admins for that in advance. SnowyCinema (talk) 02:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

provisional support—provided that the notifications are restricted to files that are relevant to enWS and that the notifications are prior to deletion rather than post-deletion. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support, would be useful to be able to import files. @Beeswaxcandle: From what I can see of this bot's edits, it only makes "file has been nominated for deletion" pings, which are pre-deletion. Also, it only notifies a Talk: page when a file used on it or on its item is getting nominated, so I don't think we're going to get flooded by irrelevant files. — Alien  3
3 3 06:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support per all above. We should not be caught unawares by actions on another project. BD2412 T 05:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support - Very useful. The bot notifies by posting a message on the first 10 talk pages of a page where a Commons file is being used, upon the file being nominated for deletion. Ciridae (talk) 16:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support —Tcr25 (talk) 22:44, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

 Support and prepare to move things here accordingly.--Jusjih (talk) 00:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

 Support per the above. (User:CommonsDelinker does a similar thing but for already deleted files, which is also quite useful.) Duckmather (talk) 23:04, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

I have posted the Phabricator request here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384484. Nosferattus (talk) 15:07, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

@Nosferattus: Another discussion here: Is the Index talk page the best place for this notification? Talk pages often go totally unnoticed on smaller wikis like this one, or the editors involved with those indexes may have left 10 years ago. Should the bot give the Scriptorium, Copyright discussions or some other main discussion space, a notice instead, so the entire community can become immediately aware? SnowyCinema (talk) 15:21, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

That is a great question. Feel free to open a new discussion about that so that we can collect more input. Nosferattus (talk) 15:58, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

@Nosferattus: I agree that Scriptorium would be a much better place for such notifications. Besides, I understand that the above discussion was about files generally, not only about .pdf and .djvu files. Some index pages are backed by .jpg or other kinds of files too. Besides, we may need to upload locally some images used as illustrations of our works too. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 14:11, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

@Nosferattus: I am going to close the request as approved. Which other steps are you planning next? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:15, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: Thanks! I guess we just have to wait on the Community Tech team to implement support now. Nosferattus (talk) 19:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Bot approval requests

• See Wikisource:Bots for information about applying for a bot status
• See Wikisource:Bot requests if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

Repairs (and moves)

Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource

See also Wikisource:Scan lab

Repeat of request to move pages in Index:Mathematical collections and translations, in two tomes - Salusbury (1661).djvu

As per previous request of September 2024, could you please undertake the following moves:—

• Index page name = Index:Mathematical collections and translations, in two tomes - Salusbury (1661).djvu
• Page offset = 1 (i.e. text on /115 moves to /116)
• Pages to move = "115-274"
• Reason = "realigned pages"

• Page offset = -1 (i.e. text on /409 moves to /408)
• Pages to move = "409-454"
• Reason = "realigned pages"

• Delete = /705 & /706

Thanks Chrisguise (talk) 23:45, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

I don't have (yet) the tools to deal with that sort of request, so can't help you here. @Xover: perhaps you could do this? — Alien  3
3 3 17:07, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I've started it, assuming that you meant for the first move 275 and not 274, as the empty page that should have been crushed as it was not in source anymore was at /276, and at /275 was the {{missing image}} that ought to have been in /276. — Alien  3
3 3 19:39, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Done. — Alien  3
3 3 20:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this; everything seems to be in order. It's so long since I looked at this that I don't know whether 274 was a mistake, or whether I had something else in mind. Chrisguise (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Renascence and other poems

This should be moved to Renascence and Other Poems. In addition, the poems themselves need to be moved to title-case. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:28, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

 Oppose Moving the main page of the work, since sentence case is explicitly allowed by policy. We can move the pages of the individual poems, since all-caps is not recommended. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:34, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Not voting here; regardless of policy, I have seen mass moves towards this title-case style and adjusted my own title cases here and at wikidata. I appreciate the uniformity and the fact that it is how I was taught to title things; two moot reasons for sure but honest. Perhaps that policy should be changed and voting can happen there. Typically this is not an area that gets votes.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:54, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

The problem with title case is that there are several different kinds to choose from. If the original book used some of the several kinds of title case, it could be given priority. However, that is not the case of this book, which uses all caps for the title, which should be avoided in WS. The original transcribing contributor chose to use the sentence case, and so their choice should be respected. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 00:27, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Index:The Poetical Works of Thomas Tickell (1781).djvu

Following deletion of two duplicate pages, could you please undertake the following moves:—

• Index page name = Index:The Poetical Works of Thomas Tickell (1781).djvu
• Page offset = -2 (i.e. text on /104 moves to /102)
• Pages to move = "104-175"
• Reason = "realigned pages"
• Delete pages /182 & /183 Chrisguise (talk) 16:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

When you say "Following deletion of two duplicate pages..." do you mean that two pages will need to be deleted as the first step, before completing the items on the list? or do you mean that two pages have already been deleted, and the items on the list can now be completed? --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:41, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Apologies, I thought I'd replied to your question. The items on the list can be carried out now because the two pages have already been removed from the djvu. Chrisguise (talk) 06:20, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Your comment of 17 February has somehow got separated and is below the next section. -- Beardo (talk) 14:08, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Chrisguise (talk) 18:24, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

The two pages have already been deleted. Chrisguise (talk) 16:46, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 20:44, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, everything is now in order. Chrisguise (talk) 00:15, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Index:Mythology among the Hebrews and its historical development.djvu

Merge Index:Mythology among the Hebrews and its historical development.djvu (file 1) into the existing index file Index:Mythology Among the Hebrews.djvu (file 2) as I accidentally created a duplication. For content pages, use pages from file 1 as they contain links. And for other pages, use those from file 2 as they are proofread. --1F616EMO (talk) 15:18, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

As the files are quite different (not same number of pages), could you please say precisely which pages, should be moved to the other index, and with which offset? Thanks — Alien  3
3 3 12:13, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

A few figs from thistles; poems and sonnets

This should be moved to A Few Figs from Thistles (Harper & Brothers, 1922), to distinguish it from A Few Figs from Thistles (Frank Shay, 1922). The current title (which is doubly bad, as it is incorrectly capitalized and includes a subtitle) is independently bad as that title and subtitle are shared between the two 1922 editions. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 06:04, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Done. — Alien  3
3 3 07:27, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

A Wonderful Bird is the Pelican

Please move this page to A wondrous bird is the pelican, as the current page title does not match the text. Or to A Wondrous Bird is the Pelican, if that capitalisation is preferred: I'm confused, as the style guide seems to call for minimal capitals but using title capitalisation seems to be widespread. Either way, the page title should align with the text. Mooncow (talk) 22:50, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

You should be able to do this yourself -at the top right, there should be a heading "Page" (second from right next to "Tools") - Move is one of the items in that menu.

The style guide prefers sentance case but allows other. -- Beardo (talk) 00:39, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

‘Move’ is not in that menu for me. I’ve made updates on other wikis, and have moved plenty of pages, but I’ve not made many updates yet on wiki source, so my guess would be the ‘move’ action is only available to logged-in autoconfirmed users who have made a certain number of updates. Hence my request here.

Thank you for the case clarification. If you or someone else therefore has the ‘move’ action available, could you please move this page to A wondrous bird is the pelican. Thanks! Mooncow (talk) 19:38, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, autoconfirmed is needed for page moves. The move is Done. — Alien  3
3 3 20:17, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Much obliged Mooncow (talk) 03:55, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Poems of Anne Countess of Winchilsea 1903

This should be moved to The Poems of Anne Countess of Winchilsea. “The” should be added; “1903” should not be placed at the end, and in any case, no disambiguation is needed. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 04:01, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 11:10, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

@TE(æ)A,ea.@Alien333 I had to do some cleaning up after this move, since a lot of linked items were not followed up (e.g. the table of contents, external links to the then POTM 'A Room of One's Own') Chrisguise (talk) 00:20, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, that's my fault. Sometimes I forget to check after moves. — Alien  3
3 3 06:58, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Preparation for death

The sub-pages need to be moved under the current title, Preparation for Death; in addition, they need to be changed to Consolation # from their current titles. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 04:41, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

You mean Consideration not Consolation - no ? -- Beardo (talk) 04:59, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

@TE(æ)A,ea.: could you answer that question? I'm waiting for that to do the move. Thanks. — Alien  3
3 3 08:07, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

• Alien: I was working on cleaning up Consolation at the time, so I wrote down the wrong name. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:35, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

• Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:27, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Five excellent songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Five Excellent Songs ("The Constant Shepherd") (see Five Excellent Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:54, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:06, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Five favourite songs (11)

This needs to be moved to Five Favourite Songs ("The Golden Glove") (see Five Favourite Songs) for disambiguation purposes. In addition, the pages should be moved from Index:Five favourite songs (11).pdf to Index:Five favourite songs (10).pdf, as the latter is a much superior scan of the same edition. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:08, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

 Comment Index:(11) does seem to me to be the better scan. e.g. compare Page:Five favourite songs (11).pdf/5 and Page:Five favourite songs (10).pdf/5. The page scan for (10) is visibly more blurred. — Alien  3
3 3 08:09, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Other than that, the mainspace move is Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:10, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

• Alien: (10) is better than (11) because p. 4 is cut off in (11) (requiring reconstruct templates), while no text is cut off in (10). I would prefer that one of the indexes be deleted; we certainly don’t need both. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:35, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

  Ah, indeed, makes sense. Blurring is negligible compared to cuts. Done — Alien  3
  3 3 14:45, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Five popular songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Five Popular Songs (Edinburgh) (see Five Popular Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:20, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:13, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Five songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Five Songs ("Robinson Crusoe") (see Five Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:43, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:15, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Index:Ukpga 18610100 en.pdf

This needs to be moved to Index:Offences against the Person Act 1861 (UKPGA Vict-24-25-100 qp).pdf due to file move on commons. ToxicPea (talk) 18:11, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:18, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Four Songs ("Duke of Gordon's three Daughters") (see Four Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:20, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four Songs (6)

This needs to be moved to Four Songs ("Roy's wife of Aldivalloch") (see Four Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 08:22, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four excellent songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Four Excellent Songs ("Home, sweet Home") (see Four Excellent Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:33, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 09:09, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four excellent songs (10)

This needs to be moved to Four Excellent Songs ("The Laird of Cockpen") (see Four Excellent Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:33, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:24, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four favourite songs (104185890)

This should be moved to Four Favourite Songs (Glasgow) for more useful disambiguation. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 09:37, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four Favourite Songs (2)

This should be moved to Four Favourite Songs (Newton-Stewart) for more useful disambiguation. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Done — Alien  3
3 3 09:33, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

@Alien333: Just reminding that when moving some pages it is also necessary to fix all the broken links and also broken redirects have to be either fixed or deleted. Done now :-) --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:18, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes I know, and most of the time moving I have spent updating links. Ah, I see, missed this TOC. — Alien  3
3 3 10:20, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

• Alien, Jan Kameníček: Thank you for all the moves! I’ve been cleaning up the NLS chapbooks with similar titles, and I run into a lot of these issues. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:35, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

  @TE(æ)A,ea.: No problem. Feel free to request similar moves whenever needed. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:50, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Four excellent new songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Four Excellent New Songs (c. 1780, Falkirk) (see Four Excellent New Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:47, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Four excellent new songs

This needs to be moved to Four Excellent New Songs (c. 1805) (see Four Excellent New Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:47, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Four Excellent New Songs (3)

This needs to be moved to Four Excellent New Songs ("Johnny's Grey-Breeks") (see Four Excellent New Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:15, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Afterglow

This needs to be moved to Afterglow (Buck) to disambiguate (among other items, An Autumn Love Cycle/Afterglow). TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 15:45, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:15, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Seven favourite songs (1)

This needs to be moved to Seven Favourite Songs ("Blink bonniely, thou E'ening Star") (see Seven Favourite Songs) for disambiguation purposes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:16, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Tam Glen (1)

This should be moved to Tam Glen (Glasgow) (see Tam Glen), as that is a more comprehensible disambiguator. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:55, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:16, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Index:Yiddish Short Stories - ed. Isaac Goldberg (1923).djvu

The OCR is one page out from the scans. -- Beardo (talk) 02:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Other discussions

Phetools-based Gadgets removed (OCR and Match&Split)

Since Phetools went down during The Great Toolforge Grid Engine Migration™ last year, the OCR service and Match&Split service that it provided have been non-functional. I have now removed (disabled) the two respective Gadgets (ocr and robot) so that the user interface artefacts of a non-functional service doesn't show up any more.

This does not affect any alternate or replacement service; only the ones that used the Phetools service on Toolforge. Xover (talk) 07:38, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Pete (talk) 20:10, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Embedding dust jackets in the header template

We have several options on how to handle dust jackets of books, such as: not worrying about them at all, transcribing them with the book, or transcribing them under a different title. I propose another one, which is to just include a picture of the dust jacket in the "notes" section of the header template, like what is done here. I want to do this, but I am afraid of getting reverted. prospectprospekt (talk) 20:41, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

I think this is a bad idea for three main reasons (1) it pushes content of the book further down the page in favor of the header; (2) it places content that is not part of the scan into the work; (3) it puts potential content into a place that would not be available in the Download. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:48, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

1 and 2 are also arguments against transcribing the dust jacket in the main (un-subpaged) part of the book, and I can make it collapsible by default if that is necessary. Also, it would not make sense to attach the scan of a dust jacket to the scan of a book because a book and its dust jacket are separate things. prospectprospekt (talk) 22:38, 14 February 2025 (UTC) edited 22:40, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

On 2, that isn't true if it was included as part of the scan of the book. If the dust jacket is part of the scan, and I believe it should be, then it should be transcribed along with the internal portions. However, a large number of our scans come from libraries where the dust jacket was not bound with the rest of the book, and so is not present in the scan. And for1, that's only true if the dust jacket is placed at the very top of the first Mainspace page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:58, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

I think including the dust jacket (or cover images, for books without dust jackets) in the Index page would be best. It's part of the work, and should be transcribed along with it. I also think it or any nice illustrative image of the work should be allowed to be included optionally in the mainspace page. Perhaps not in the header notes field, as that results in a fair bit of empty space, but floated to the right as we do for author images. It's good to give readers a visual clue as to what the original worked looked like physically. Sam Wilson 05:04, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

To clarify, you do not mean any nice illustrative image as in "any decorative image which seems to fit the theme of the book", but as in "an image of the physical object that was scanned", right?

Besides whether it is desirable, we would have the issue that often the closest we have to that is a scan of the cover, with borders cropped, which, well, doesn't bring anything in msot cases. — Alien  3
3 3 07:37, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely! I didn't mean any random apposite image, but specifically a cover or first page (or whatever is most appropriate) of the work. I think especially for manuscripts it could be very useful to give a feel for the work. Sam Wilson 01:02, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

But that's not what the |notes= field in the {{header}} template is for, and adding it outside the header would be an annotation. If the dust jacket is included in the scan it can be treated like any other part of the book (title page, frontispiece, etc.), and if it is not then our readers will have to do without it as with any other lacking element of a scan. And even when the scan includes the dust jacket we should probably generally avoid it as it has limited value in the majority of works, and at the same time takes up space and gets in the way of the content in our texts (unlike in a physical book). General media related to the work can be found on Commons, as linked in the sisterlinks in the header template provided the connection is set up on Wikidata.

Also keep in mind that the actual author in most cases had no or minimal input on the dust jacket. Like other artefacts of the publishing or printing process we very explicitly make the distinction: it is the author's work we try to reproduce as faithfully as possible, and everything else is either of secondary importance or explicitly excluded (library cards, ex libris, letters, clippings, etc.). Xover (talk) 07:40, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

In my opinion, a dust jacket is "information that adds value to the reader" so it fits in the |notes= parameter (edit: and AFAIK we don't have strict guidelines on how that parameter should be used. Some people use it to quote book reviews, which are not part of the book either). I don't see any problem with adding it as an annotation in the body either; then, it could be moved to the very bottom of the page instead of taking up space at the top. Perhaps the best solution is to transcribe it in a subpage, so both its connection to book and the fact that it is a different object is made clear. prospectprospekt (talk) 15:59, 15 February 2025 (UTC) edited 16:18, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

We have a policy when it comes to Wikisource:Annotations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:22, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Seeing that there is no consensus against it, I will begin doing this (1) only for books I proofread and (2) with some modifications: I will float the image to the left, put the caption inside the image and decrease the width to 250px (though I am willing to decrease it further). prospectprospekt (talk) 17:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

To review: only three people have commented. I was explicitly against. No one was in favor. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Sam Wilson is kind of in favor, with his concern being that the dust jacket would take up too much space. That, however, can be mitigated with not centering it and making it smaller.

From what I've observed, we generally give users wide deference over their stylistic choices and what they can include in the notes parameter. How to include dust jackets is something we don't have a clear guideline on (and I oppose including them in the scan), so I think that any method a user may choose to use should be respected. prospectprospekt (talk) 19:04, 23 February 2025 (UTC) edited 19:11, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

I have created {{dust jacket}} with some changes from the specifications I previously laid out. I am putting the image(s) in the center because I found a way to do so and decreasing the width to 200px. prospectprospekt (talk) 05:36, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Black Panther (newspaper)

A cursory check in the U. S. copyright office revealed that issues of the newspaper was never registered, meaning that they could be in the public domain. Are there any other factors I need to take into account? Norbillian (talk) 00:48, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

{{PD-US-no-notice}} only is for works published between 1933 and 1977. — Alien  3
3 3 07:56, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

You want {{PD-US-1978-89}}, there was no registration with the USCO. --RAN (talk) 02:53, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Note that some of the issues have copyright notices on them. (The June 30, 1972 issue has one, for instance; the date is, oddly enough, 1971, though that might just shorten the term rather than invalidate the notice.). I don't recall off the top of my head exactly what formalities requirements were in force in the 1970s, but I would not assume that any issues with notices on them are public domain. JohnMarkOckerbloom (talk) 22:32, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I believe a notice alone would be sufficient. They had to be registered before renewal, but that requirement ended with required renewal. There's a case where a major studio lost copyright to a movie because they wrote MDCXXX as the copyright year instead of MDCXXXX, but that only happened when they failed to renew it 28 years after the copyright notice because they thought they had ten more years. So 1971 should be fine.--Prosfilaes (talk) 21:25, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Redlinks caused by page moves

I noticed a number of redlinks in the list of works completed at Wikisource:WikiProject NLS. On investigation, all but one were caused by the works having being moved without redirects. I amended the links on that page, and also a couple of the index pages which linked the now non-existent page. I also noted that there were several now-redlinks from User or User talk pages. Should anything be done about those ? (The user that I saw is no longer active). -- Beardo (talk) 02:33, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Redlinks to moved works mostly ought to be corrected, but in user (talk) namespace, I'd argue just leave them (As the content of these pages is either the user's or that of the users who commented.) Maybe leave a comment at talk (for user pages) or a reply (for user talk pages) to notify that the work has changed title. — Alien  3
3 3 18:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. That makes sense. -- Beardo (talk) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Index:Deccan Nursery Tales.djvu

This index is showing Error:Invalid Interval and the transcluded work now shows Error:no such page. I tried purging here and in Commons but that didn't seem to help. -- Beardo (talk) 20:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

The history is confused, but it looks as though the files was in danger of deletion on Commons, so we had a local copy of the DjVu that was proofread. When the file was "restored" on Commons, our copy was deleted, but the Commons copy does not connect properly to our transcription. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:24, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

I have restored our copy for now. someone will need to upload our copy over the Commons copy (because it is damaged). OR we need to get the Commons copy moved without leaving a redirect, then upload our copy to the vacatted name, or some such. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:27, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

I have tried uploading over the Commons copy with our copy, but Commons identifies it as an exact copy. So there is some technical issue happening with the Commons file preventing it from displaying. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. -- Beardo (talk) 23:33, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey, @Beardo: if I got it correctly, the file we have here was FileImporter'd to commons over the file they had there, today, after your last messages. Am I right in assuming the local copy can now be deleted as {{now commons}}? Thanks. — Alien  3
3 3 20:15, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

There is no history on Commons indicating a new upload. There are only edits to the file description. We won't know if the file works until we delete again. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

I've deleted the file again, and all seems fine now. If the problem resurfaces, we can try something else. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:50, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! — Alien  3
3 3 20:55, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

New Portal for the Russia-Ukraine war

Portal:Russia-Ukraine war was published last night, along with many official public domain texts from the U.S. and U.N.

• It needs at least some texts from Russian government. Please research and add any official translations of Russian proclamations, executive orders, parliamentary resolutions etc.
• Some Chinese, Iranian, and NATO propaganda on this topic would also be valuable to historians and researchers and enable a more full analysis of the topic. Also someone could blueify this: Ukraine Defense Contact Group with the help of primary source texts cited on our sister projects' w:Ukraine Defense Contact Group.

After U.S. and Russian diplomats met in Riyadh earlier this week, a U.N Security Council resolution has just passed, and the Heads of State of both U.K. and France have visited the White House and given joint press conferences with POTUS.

Ukrainian PM Volodymyr Zelenskyy is meeting with POTUS Trump as I write this, and they may or may not make a joint statement or give a press conference. Alot will happen in the next few weeks, so please do the research and contribute to recording this significant episode in World History. We can aspire to become a hub and resource for historians active on the Ukrainian, Russian and other wikisource projects.

Collegial regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 18:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Here are some texts to start researching and redlinks to blueify:

• Letter dated 28 February 2014 from the Permanent Representative of Ukraine to the United Nations addressed to the President of the Security Council S/2014/136
• Minsk protocol 2014 September cease-fire agreement. Minsk Protocol (Russian) w:Minsk agreements#Minsk Protocol
• Memorandum on fulfilment of the provisions of the Protocol on the results of consultations of the Trilateral Contact Group 2014 September 19
• Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreement (Minsk 2) 2025 February 12
  • United Nations Security Council Resolution 2202 2015 February 17th, called on all parties to fully implement the Minsk agreements
  • diplomatic correspondence, annexes, addendums and appendices. Portal:Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine, w:Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine, See also: Author:Vadislav Surkov, Chief Russian advisor on Ukrainian issues. Portal:Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, w:Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe. Steinmeier formula of interpreting the Minsk agreements by German President Author:Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

Jaredscribe (talk) 22:26, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

A significant issue when President Trump Meets with Ukrainian President Zelensky in the Oval Office February 28, 2025 at the whitehouse, was the history and future of Foreign Assistance to Ukraine.

• EU Assistance to Ukraine [1] as of 2025 February 25, according to the Delegation of the European Union to the U.S.
• U.S. Security Cooperation with Ukraine as of 2025 January 20, fact sheet from the U.S. Department of State [2]

These are my todo lists for next week, but you can beat me to it by blueifing these and doing other research to add public domain texts to our free LIBRARY. Have a good weekend.

Jaredscribe (talk) 22:38, 28 February 2025 (UTC) I

Burmese Textiles

The source files have been deleted at Commons as not PD (in UK, I assume). It seems that the source was as separtae images in a category. Can anything be done ? -- Beardo (talk) 05:28, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

File:Bankfield Museum Notes, 2nd series, no. 7, Burmese textiles from the Shan and Kachin districts.pdf uploaded locally and the index page created. I have also made a request at Wikisource:Bot requests#Burmese Textiles to move the pages under the new index. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:56, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Dark mode interaction with US Stat Sidenotes

Dark mode causing problems again. The US Stat sidenotes on dark mode are white text on a white box. ToxicPea (talk) 02:56, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

Assuming you mean {{USStatSidenote}}, I don't see anything. eg if you go to Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 1.djvu/468 and turn on dark mode it's white on black. Could you point to where you're seeing problems? thanks. — Alien  3
3 3 14:59, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

The problem is in the mainspace pages such as United States Statutes at Large/Volume 1/3rd Congress/1st Session/Chapter 10. My guess is that the issue exists in {{USStatCols}}. ToxicPea (talk) 15:12, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

Found, dropped edit request. — Alien  3
3 3 15:31, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

EOsubsection

Could someone please make an {{EOsubsection/s}} and a {{EOsubsection/e}} so I can use it across pages. See Executive Order 14144 for an example of my problem. ToxicPea (talk) 01:58, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

On that note, could someone with a better understanding of these templates than me please write documentation for this. ToxicPea (talk) 02:00, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

So it seems like the problem is seen across Page:Executive Order 14144.pdf/2 and Page:Executive Order 14144.pdf/3. I am good-not-great at templates and I have fiddled around with ones that wrap across pages before, but for the life of me, I can't remember any of them at the moment. Can you recall similar /s and /e-style templates that I can reverse engineer? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:15, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

The first one that comes to mind for is {{numbered div/s}} and {{numbered div/e}} ToxicPea (talk) 18:14, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

I created the /s and /e. Can you take a look at the relevant pages and confirm output is what you wanted? — Alien  3
3 3 18:17, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

(Note: fixed /e behaviour at 18:19 UTC) — Alien  3
3 3 18:19, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes this is what I wanted. ToxicPea (talk) 18:21, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

March Proofread of the Month

As a Wikisource project for Women's History month, I've added Virginia Woolf's A Room of One's Own (transcription project), which recently entered the public domain, to Wikisource and to the {{PotM}} template following discussion on the WikiProject page. It's a couple days late, but we have more than four weeks to catch up! -Pete (talk) 04:30, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

I looked hi and lo to find a copy to upload for Public Domain Day, but failed. I'm glad you're more resourceful than me. Thanks for the upload and for encouraging us to collaborate on it. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:16, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

Glad that worked out! I can't take credit for finding the scan(s), I think EncycloPetey, MarkLSteadman and Alien333 did most of the legwork.

As Alien333 pointed out, we're already almost done with this work. There are a few suggestions for followup PotM once finished, we could use another voice or two in making a choice: Wikisource_talk:Proofread_of_the_Month#March_2025:_Woman_author (toward the bottom of this very long thread) -Pete (talk) 19:06, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Tech News: 2025-10

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Updates for editors

• All logged-in editors using the mobile view can now edit a full page. The "Edit full page" link is accessible from the "More" menu in the toolbar. This was previously only available to editors using the Advanced mobile contributions setting. [3]
• Interface administrators can now help to remove the deprecated Cite CSS code matching "mw-ref" from their local MediaWiki:Common.css. The list of wikis in need of cleanup, and the code to remove, can be found with this global search and in this example, and you can learn more about how to help on the CSS migration project page. The Cite footnote markers ("[1]") are now rendered by Parsoid, and the deprecated CSS is no longer needed. The CSS for backlinks ("mw:referencedBy") should remain in place for now. This cleanup is expected to cause no visible changes for readers. Please help to remove this code before March 20, after which the development team will do it for you.
• When editors embed a file (e.g. [[File:MediaWiki.png]]) on a page that is protected with cascading protection, the software will no longer restrict edits to the file description page, only to new file uploads.[4] In contrast, transcluding a file description page (e.g. {{:File:MediaWiki.png}}) will now restrict edits to the page.[5]
• When editors revert a file to an earlier version it will now require the same permissions as ordinarily uploading a new version of the file. The software now checks for 'reupload' or 'reupload-own' rights,[6] and respects cascading protection.[7]
• When administrators are listing pages for deletion with the Nuke tool, they can now also list associated talk pages and redirects for deletion, alongside pages created by the target, rather than needing to manually delete these pages afterwards. [8]
• The previously noted update to Single User Login, which will accommodate browser restrictions on cross-domain cookies by moving login and account creation to a central domain, will now roll out to all users during March and April. The team plans to enable it for all new account creation on Group0 wikis this week. See the SUL3 project page for more details and an updated timeline.
• Since last week there has been a bug that shows some interface icons as black squares until the page has fully loaded. It will be fixed this week. [9]
• One new wiki has been created: a Wikipedia in Sylheti (w:syl:) [10]
• View all 23 community-submitted tasks that were resolved last week. For example, a bug was fixed with loading images in very old versions of the Firefox browser on mobile. [11]

Updates for technical contributors

• Detailed code updates later this week: MediaWiki

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 02:30, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Work in Gaelic

What should be done with a work in Gaelic - Index:Gille dubh ciar-dhubh.pdf -- Beardo (talk) 04:34, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Gaelic is IIRC not in our scope, and there is no gaelic WS (source: Special:SiteMatrix), so it should probably go to mulws. — Alien  3
3 3 07:57, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. That is what I suspected. How should that be done ? (There may be other of the Scottish chapbooks like this as well.) Beardo (talk) 15:25, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Another - Index:Ioram na truaighe, le Issachari M'Aula do Thighearna Assinn.pdf -- Beardo (talk) 16:43, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

I believe Alien means multi-language wikisource ( wikisource.org ) - Pete (talk) 16:54, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes - but how does one move pages between different wikisources ?

This is where Scottish Gaelic is listed on the main wikisource - https://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page/G%C3%A0idhlig -- Beardo (talk) 17:00, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

I see. Pasting my answer from PD, which I think applies equally well to both of these works, and regardless of whether it goes to multi-language or Galic wikisource?

I don't know an automated way to do it, but since it consists of just six pages, it seems like a simple copy-paste job would be pretty quick. I don't think preserving the version history is important, because I don't believe editors own any copyright over efforts to faithfully transcribe something (there is no creative/derivative component of the work). But even if I'm wrong, surely we could just get explicit agreement from the three editors who seem to have worked on it? - Pete (talk) 19:29, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

I am sure that there is no need to ask individual editors - and suspect that some were part of the NLS project and no longer active - but the wikis generally like to maintain edit histories. -- Beardo (talk) 00:35, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

When they moved the images from the pedias to the commons, they also maintained the upload history. It should be a matter, for things like this, of adding it to the versioning software directly. There are things that can be done with versioning that we (simple autoconfirmed users and probably even the regular admin) do not have an interface for. I have actually seen some "cherry picking" going on here and at commons previously, via different histories. The people who did that could probably do this legitimate and open versioning thing very easily.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:08, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Assent from the editors is not needed, but we do try to preserve edit history whenever possible. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:50, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Universal Code of Conduct annual review: proposed changes are available for comment

Please help translate to your language.

I am writing to you to let you know that proposed changes to the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter are open for review. You can provide feedback on suggested changes through the end of day on Tuesday, 18 March 2025. This is the second step in the annual review process, the final step will be community voting on the proposed changes. Read more information and find relevant links about the process on the UCoC annual review page on Meta.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. This annual review was planned and implemented by the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, you may review the U4C Charter.

Please share this information with other members in your community wherever else might be appropriate.

-- In cooperation with the U4C, Keegan (WMF) 18:51, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

License for Elysee.fr and visit of President Macron to the White House

Visit to Washington February 24 2025 by President of the Republic of France, Emmanuel Macron. This raises three questions, which are likely to re-occur, concerning 1. License options, 2. External Links, and 3. Transcript.

• License options: Stated at https://www.elysee.fr/en/legal "the contents of this site are offered under [an open license https://www.etalab.gouv.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ETALAB-Licence-Ouverte-v2.0.pdf]. I'll describe it as "Elysee Open License 2.0". When translated from French, the section on page 2, COMPATIBILITE DE LA PRESENTE LICENCE The present license is conceived to be compatible with any free license which requires attribution, and in particular with the prior version of this license as well as with the "Open Government License" (OGL) of the United Kingdom, "Creative Commons Attribution" (CC-BY) of Creative Commons and "Open Data Commons Attribution" (ODC-BY) of the Open Knowledge Foundation. On the text in question, therefore, I applied a {{CC-BY}}. Is that adequate, or should we create a new template {{Open Elysee License}} or something like that?

• External Links. The wikisource text I've added reproduces links in the source text, which transcludes from YT and X.com, as you can see here: https://www.elysee.fr/en/emmanuel-macron/2025/02/25/visit-to-washington Graphics and photos cannot be uploaded to commons without permission, as they remain under copyright, as indicated at https://www.elysee.fr/en/legal. Therefore I've just left external links to the Audiovisual content. The text of the Xpost/Tweets that are transcluded on elysee.fr, are considered under the license terms of elysee.fr, so I have copied that text, as it is under a free license.
• Transcript. Neither whitehouse.gov nor elysee.fr released a transcript of the press conference, but instead linked to the video. A transcript is available at C-SPAN.org, and I have not (yet) included it in the wikisource text. Do we have a guideline or best practice on C-SPAN transcripts of U.S. government proceedings?

I'm taking the weekend off. If anyone wishes to continue this work, please do.

This week I've added many other texts related to the Portal:Russia-Ukraine war, and have reorganized and expanded these: Portal:USSR, Portal:NATO, Portal:European Union, as well as Portal:France. Work to be done includes uploading the pdfs that are available on the official websites, and blueifying redlinks found on the portals by adding more texts. Please contribute. Jaredscribe (talk) 23:24, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Dark mode interaction with tables.

Tables of the variety class="_ba2021_sched2" and possibly others always have dark lines. This somewhat an issue on dark mode in which the lines are barely visible. ToxicPea (talk) 05:05, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I think I figured out the problem. The css styles page for the act's index is something like

._ba2021_sched2 {

margin: auto;

border-collapse: collapse;

border-bottom: 1px solid black;

}

._ba2021_sched2 th:nth-child(n+2),

._ba2021_sched2 td:nth-child(n+2) {

border-left: 1px solid black;

}

._ba2021_sched2 th {

border-top: 1px solid black;

font-weight: normal;

text-align: center;

border-bottom: 1px solid black;

}

._ba2021_sched2 td {

text-indent: -1.5em;

padding-left: 2.5em;

padding-right: 0.5em;

vertical-align: top;

}

"1px solid black" should just be "1 px solid". Could someone have a bot go through each Act of Parliament of the UK and delete the word "black" from any css styles page ToxicPea (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Oh. That's ... one of the reasons we usually use templatestyles.

How many are there, exactly?

And also, why didn't people make a template for this?

The removing is going to be non-trivial, I think, because there might be in all these index css's legitimate uses of it. Even /border(\-(top|left|bottom|right))?\s*:\s*1px solid black\s*;/s is likely to have false positives. — Alien  3
3 3 17:33, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I'd assume that nearly every piece of UK legislation with a schedule table would have this problem and possibly non-UK legislation as well. I wouldn't expect to find this on non legislation pages but I can't be sure. ToxicPea (talk) 02:40, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Can we write this up somewhere, a list of styles not to use or that cause problems with dark mode. I, for one, have been using 1px solid black in the TemplateStyles for several books... Arcorann (talk) 09:50, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

<rant>This is all, as always, WMF's darn fault. People had made a (relatively) simple invert-style dark mode, which worked in nearly all cases, and caused a few errors for stuff which shouldn't be inverted, for which there was a quick and universal fix: .mw-no-invert. And, then, of course, they felt the need to add this huge mess of a "feature-style dark mode", which essentially the marketing way of saying "you had some exceptions; now you have more exceptions, everywhere, yay!" And, of course, the fixes aren't always simple: if you're lucky, you "only" have to spend fifteen minutes searching through codex's bad color documentation to figure out the right approximation variable; but then, if there isn't a good approximation (because of course codex doesn't just represent the whole palette), then either you know CSS thoroughly and you have to take out the big guns with @media screen, in the end only to redo manually what the invert dark mode did automatically, or you can just tell yourself to go to hell. And of course they throw on the wikis the responsibility of fixing their mess. And to top it all, I haven't yet seen one ducking valable excuse for using this instead of inverting.</rant>

What causes issues, it's very simple: about every single use of colors. Precise doc is at mw:Recommendations for night mode compatibility on Wikimedia wikis. In a nutshell: never use absolute colors, always define background if defining text color and vice versa, don't use background:none/transparent. — Alien  3
3 3 10:23, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

About 5300 uses - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2F%28dotted%7Cdashed%7Csolid%7Cdouble%7Cgroove%7Cridge%7Cinset%7Coutset%3B%29+black%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns2=1&ns3=1&ns4=1&ns5=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns8=1&ns9=1&ns10=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns102=1&ns103=1&ns104=1&ns105=1&ns106=1&ns107=1&ns114=1&ns115=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1&ns829=1 . Template and IndexStyles are easier to resovle but take time to propogate. —unsigned comment by ShakespeareFan00 (talk) .

That's only the border uses; there are also all the background ones (or have you fixed them all already?). Also, note that the regex times out, which means in the end any number greater than 5300. And also, this is only for black borders; all borders that used fixed colors are problematic in dark mode. — Alien  3
3 3 18:32, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

The nigh mode aware background lint error was worked on, I hit the limit of not having admin powers. Not sure about other uses. So treat 5300 ish border uses as a low-end estimate it was only about 500 for Index/Template namespaces, and I tried to carefully migrate some other namespace border uses already. And Yes I note I am also a proflic usesr of 1px solid black directly.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:50, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Access to Ancestry resource

Can someone with access to ancestry.got get me the death date of Alice McClure Griffin, given there, please? (It's hidden to non-members) Thanks! — Alien  3
3 3 09:25, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

18 Apr 1918, in Gallatin, Kentucky, United States. It is availble via the wikipedia library. Morris80315436 (talk) 11:22, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! and thanks also for reminding me of TWL, I keep forgetting it exists. — Alien  3
3 3 11:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Request Frog: the Horse.... index be renamed

The index is currently named Index:Froghorsethatkne00meek.pdf. I had the file on Wikimedia Commons renamed to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Frog-The_Horse_That_Knew_No_Master(Froghorsethatkne00meek).pdf. Could someone please rename the index so that it matches the Wikimedia Commons name? Sorry about any confusion this caused, but I think the new name makes it much more clear what this is an index of. Thanks! SurprisedMewtwoFace (talk) 21:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Deletion Request: Frog-The Horse....Index

Could someone please nominated Index:Frog-The Horse That Knew No Master(Froghorsethatkne00meek).pdf for speedy deletion? Based on the information that was posted on its Wikimedia Commons page by ShakespeareFan, I think I got it wrong and was renewed, just in 1960 instead of 1961. Very sorry to have caused anyone trouble with this. None of the pages were ever finished so nothing should cause any problems there. Again, sorry if this caused any trouble. SurprisedMewtwoFace (talk) 01:27, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Can't you do that ? One of the reasons is creator request. -- Beardo (talk) 03:02, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to delete index pages on my own. It says to add the sdelete template at the top of the page but editing indexes is a bunch of fields rather than a regular Wikisource page. I don't know how to delete the index on my own. SurprisedMewtwoFace (talk) 04:08, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Actually, I finally figured out how to put the sdelete tag on Indexes. Was not terribly user friendly but doable. SurprisedMewtwoFace (talk) 04:19, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I normally put the sdelete tag in the table of contents block - that seems to work. With indexes, it is not obvious, true. You can't delete things - only administrators can do that. -- Beardo (talk) 19:21, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I did indeed get it to finally work by putting sdelete on table of contents. All resolved now. SurprisedMewtwoFace (talk) 19:25, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Done—deleted the index. SnowyCinema (talk) 04:21, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Dark Hester quotes style

See Index talk:Dark Hester.djvu - there seems to be a conflict about the quote style. -- Beardo (talk) 19:22, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

And if we decide to go with curly quotes, is there an easy way to change straight to curly ? -- Beardo (talk) 20:04, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Changing typographic/curly quotation marks to straight ones is much easier than vice versa. A good semi-automated proxy that I've used is changing  " to  “ and "  to ” . I have a user script that puts a find and replace box on every page that I open, so you could copy that if it helps. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:36, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

See also Wikisource:Tools and scripts#CurlyQuotes. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:52, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Tech News: 2025-11

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Updates for editors

• Editors who use password managers at multiple wikis may notice changes in the future. The way that our wikis provide information to password managers about reusing passwords across domains has recently been updated, so some password managers might now offer you login credentials that you saved for a different Wikimedia site. Some password managers already did this, and are now doing it for more Wikimedia domains. This is part of the SUL3 project which aims to improve how our unified login works, and to keep it compatible with ongoing changes to the web-browsers we use. [12][13]
• The Wikipedia Apps Team is inviting interested users to help improve Wikipedia’s offline and limited internet use. After discussions in Afrika Baraza and the last ESEAP call, key challenges like search, editing, and offline access are being explored, with upcoming focus groups to dive deeper into these topics. All languages are welcome, and interpretation will be available. Want to share your thoughts? Join the discussion or email aramadan@wikimedia.org!
• All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on March 19. This is planned at 14:00 UTC. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks.
• View all 27 community-submitted tasks that were resolved last week.

Updates for technical contributors

• Detailed code updates later this week: MediaWiki

In depth

• The latest quarterly Growth newsletter is available. It includes: the launch of the Community Updates module, the most recent changes in Community Configuration, and the upcoming test of in-article suggestions for first-time editors.
• An old API that was previously used in the Android Wikipedia app is being removed at the end of March. There are no current software uses, but users of the app with a version that is older than 6 months by the time of removal (2025-03-31), will no longer have access to the Suggested Edits feature, until they update their app. You can read more details about this change.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:09, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Index lua issue

@CalendulaAsteraceae: All indexes I can find have "Lua error in Module:Proofreadpage_index_template at line 516: data for mw.loadData contains unsupported data type 'function'." now. I suggest we maybe revert at Module:Proofreadpage index template/config until we can sort it out. — Alien  3
3 3 19:07, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

(Note: it has been reverted and issue is now fixed.) — Alien  3
3 3 19:44, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. People may still encounter the issue for a while until everything is updated. It's showing up on multiple pages for me, but I find that I can clear the problem with a null edit. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:58, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

How long? I'm still getting it. IdiotSavant (talk) 02:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Try purging the page. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:29, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Is there going to be a way to clear the problem automatically ? Or will each index need to be done manually ? -- Beardo (talk) 13:18, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

If we want, we could null-edit all indexes with a bot, but before undertaking mass site-wide actions I'd prefer waiting a week (so until the 18th) to see if it doesn't fix itself. — Alien  3
3 3 17:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

OK. Could a bot do a purge on all indexes ? -- Beardo (talk) 17:59, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

A null-edit is I think about equivalent (for our purposes) to a hard purge. What I mean is that doing a null edit also have the effect of a purge. We could also just purge, if we want to. — Alien  3
3 3 18:18, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

I still see indexes with this error and the "What links here" tool often does not work. The Orphaned Pages listing is full of pages which are not actually orphaned. -- Beardo (talk) 16:56, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

Ok, will try to patch something up to mass-purge things. — Alien  3
3 3 07:51, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

All wikipages do get "purged" eventually, it's just it can take quite a bit of time for indirect changes like this. You may want to check whether you can find some way to see the number of affected pages and watch that for a bit before firing up a bot (i.e. how big and whether and how fast it is decreasing). If you have to null-edit every single Index:-namespace page that's going to be a pretty big job (takes a long time and puts strain on the servers). Xover (talk) 10:26, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

@Beardo: How often are you finding some that still have the issue? I've just fished through about two hundred of them (to try and get a good way of selecting them), and I haven't managed to find one that still has the error. — Alien  3
3 3 14:39, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LonelyPages&limit=20&offset=1430 - has 3,567 Pages showing nothing links to them, and that only reaches partway through letter A. Selecting any, going to the index and doing a hard purge, and suddenly the pages find that they are linked. There must be many multiple of thousands of Pages affected. -- Beardo (talk) 21:08, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

LonelyPages only gets updated once in a while, and last updated 07:38, March 22, 2025. — Alien  3
3 3 07:04, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Generally updated every three days. Updated today. So now two weeks since the problem happened. -- Beardo (talk) 23:42, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Ah, indeed, it still lists them. It gives us a good means to know which indexes are affected: through api?action=query&list=querypage&qppage=Lonelypages&qplimit=500, and then by looping the continue.

In the 5000 pages in cache, there are about 3600 Page:s, from 147 distinct indexes. If we null-edit them, and assume 150 new indexes every three days, that would make 50 null edits a day, so about two null edits an hour. Which should be mostly fine on server load. @Xover: What do you think? — Alien  3
3 3 07:04, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Proposal for interface admin

Catching issues with indices are pretty common. I propose that we should have an interface element in the MediaWiki namespace that tells users something like "If the index is showing [error], try purging the page" with some explanatory text on how to purge, etc. I am hopeful that this will reduce the requests, frustration, and overhead. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:22, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

I mocked up this at mul.ws: s:mul:MediaWiki:Editnotice-106, —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:32, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

This thread wasn't about the now classic "Invalid Index" thing we've had for a year, it was for a mistake in lua code which had propagated an error to all indexes (but since it's been corrected it doesn't show up on new indexes, as the draft you made implies).

That being said, adding a mention of the Invalid Index thing in the editnotice sounds like a good idea. — Alien  3
3 3 18:34, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I created a sub-heading. The original topic inspired this topic, so I don't want to distract from the original one. If that wasn't clear, I had hoped that the L3 header would make it clear. Evidently not. :/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:37, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

FYI: Wikisource and Wikidata together: lessons from the Wikisource Conference

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/03/12/wikisource-and-wikidata-together-lessons-from-the-wikisource-conference/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:49, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Add text to Proposed deletions directing users to the Multilingual Wikisource

I imported some content from here to mul.ws today because the work was in Irish. This happens every now and then, so maybe some kind of text directing users here that they can request importing for non-English texts to s:mul:Wikisource:Scriptorium should be added to the proposed deletion template as well as the page listing deletions would be handy. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:46, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

This gives some brief who/what/why info: Help:Multilingual Wikisource. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:30, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Adding a note about importing to mul seems a good idea to me. To WS:PD, yes, but I don't think we should add it to {{delete}}, as it doesn't contain that type of information (it's not much more than a link to the PD discussion).

I've moved this section to the bottom of the page, as it does not appear to me to be a proposal. Feel free to move back if I am mistaken. — Alien  3
3 3 18:41, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

I thought of it as a proposal, but I'm indifferent to where it's hosted. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:49, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Anchor links

I'm trying to add anchor links throughout this book, but they're not working the way I had envisioned. When you click the anchor link on an individual page it works just fine, but they don't work properly on the transclusion. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if there's really anything that can be done about it. Is there another way to do this that I'm missing, or is it a limitation of the module? MediaKyle (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@MediaKyle: If the target is on a different transcluded page, the "subpage" parameter is required. Wee "Wolfville" in djvu page 9. • M-le-mot-dit (talk) 11:23, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Gotcha, I see that now. Thanks a lot. MediaKyle (talk) 11:35, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

'color:black' and related.

Enough. Various contributors have done various (background-color:black) migrations, across various namespaces.

Which of the approaches is the CONSISTENT and STABLE fix, otherwise the attempted fixes are a waste of time? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:32, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

For the record: as far as I know, there isn't only one solution. Replacing the black by currentcolor, removing it, and replacing it with a codex variable all three work in most cases. — Alien  3
3 3 17:55, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

<rant>It would be nice as with other issues to have ONE, CONSISTENT and STABLE repair to apply, which can be fixed using AWB in a short period, rather than a hap-hazzard, what 'seems' to work approach, by random contributors. </rant>

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:35, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Okay ,I found the Codex.. And have some idea of which incantations to chant to tame the CSS.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:14, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

I HAVE HAD IT. Some update I made a while ago doesn't work here and so was reverted. Perhaps someone else can make 'night-mode' behave in a sane way? Until then I'm sorely tempted to just disable the template that's causing the conflict. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:42, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Can someone else also please look over Template:TOC templates/styles.css and find the working version, and editprotect it, so I';m not thrashing around trying to NOT solve the problem please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:54, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Yet another example of dots overlapping. : Index:Mazeppa (1819).djvu , I'm sorely tempted to just start disabling broken templates, until they get repaired. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:28, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Definitely not. The templates seemed working fine until this night mode play started. So, it seems to me that first everything should be made compatible with the night mode without disabling anything, and only after all this will be done the night mode should be deployed. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Perhaps you can figure out why in the instance listed the two templates don't work together? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:13, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

which.. is ... what .. I ... have ... been ... attempting to do. But some templates DO.. NOT.. WANT.. to work nicely together. Currently {{Dotted TOC page listing}} and {{AuxToc}} - Is there some aspect of overlapping CSS styles that I am missing entirely? With these two templates, I've tried various minor changes to try and get a stable template in BOTH light and dark modes and cannot seemingly pull it together. Can someone else please find the last STABLE versions of all the tempalates I've made attempts to repair, and actually implement something STABLE please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:53, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Stop bothering with {{Dotted TOC page listing}}. It has long been an example of how not to do a template and playing with it further always makes it worse. It needs to die, but is too widely used at present. Also, DTPL and AuxTOC were never intended to work together, so trying to make them play nicely is not worth the candle. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:29, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

As stated above , I'm sorely tempted to just disable the template and break stuff in one massive outage, it.. should .. not ... need ... something that drastic to get things fixed.. I've tried various approaches to get working.. NONE worked. In Dark mode trying to set backgroundtext doesn't even actually seem to work properly anyway. FIX the template or it should be disabled immediately, I am FED UP running around in circles trying to improve things, only be told I shouldn't have bothered.. Drain of effort, seriously :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:39, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

I did a quick test with {{Dotted TOC line}} which didn't work either, showing almost exactly the same problem. There should be ONE template that ACTUALLY works, instead of contributors playing hunt the glitch? As I said above, FIX or the templates should start to be disabled. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:50, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

I've essentially had enough of playing find the quirk, especially when I can't actually find what went wrong in the first place, and it's not as if 'night mode' is actually something Wikisource asked for.. <rant> ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:53, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Of course if CSS had support for actual dot leaders... <rant>.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:07, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

ShakespeareFan00: Here is Inductiveload's toc to toc conversion script. It smartly replaces dtpl with the other one. If you want to massively relieve source from this template, this is how to do it. I make no promises about it fixing the AuxTOC problems, but this script could be run once every 3 months or so and repeatedly fix a lot of problems while allowing the very simplified use of the offending template.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:00, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Your wiki will be in read-only soon

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The Wikimedia Foundation will switch the traffic between its data centers. This will make sure that Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster.

All traffic will switch on 19 March. The switch will start at 14:00 UTC.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop while the switch is made. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

A banner will be displayed on all wikis 30 minutes before this operation happens. This banner will remain visible until the end of the operation.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.

• You will not be able to edit for up to an hour on Wednesday 19 March 2025.
• If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it. If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal. Then you should be able to save your edit. But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

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This project may be postponed if necessary. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. Any changes will be announced in the schedule.

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:14, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Template:Dotted TOC page listing

Okay I was trying to get this working, and it now broken beyond being repaired apparently. I don't know what revert or change made it stop working anymore. Can somone else PLEASE find a STABLE version and lock it, so I'm not going round in circles trying to make this unstable clunker actually BEHAVE! ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:03, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

You've made me reconsider if it's actually worth the time to actually care, if technical problems like this are not going to be solveable on a realistic timescale.. Do not make me waste effort on this again! ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:03, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Ive now gone all the way back to the last version by a different contributor. And this page is now not rendering properly..

Page:The_Zoologist,_4th_series,_vol_1_(1897).djvu/522. At some point today it WAS working. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:10, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Names of UK Government Statutory Instruments

I queried that The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 was moved and retitled to Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020, when the SI clearly has the former title and was told that most of the other pages in Category:Statutory Instruments of the United Kingdom remove the leading "The". Why is this done? I think it should not be. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:34, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

I venture that users have attempted to align with Wikipedia's convention of dropping articles whenever possible (their style guide states that leading articles should be dropped unless they are "inseparable" to the name, and Wikipedia editors appear to have decided that the "the" is not needed for UK legislation). However, Legislation.gov.uk, Wikidata, and Commons files all include "the" for SIs. I'm not sure what Wikisource's style guide is for this, but I would assume we would want to maintain names as they appear in source texts, rather than changing them to align with Wikipedia article conventions. We don't have too many SIs in mainspace yet, so if anyone else has comments, it would probably be best to standardize them now. Currently some have "the" and some do not. Penguin1737 (talk) 17:59, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

What does the semi official SI guidance (seem to recall there is a guide linked on legislation.gov) say on titles? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:18, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

The wikipedia style guide says "Do not place definite or indefinite articles at the beginning of titles unless they are part of a proper name ..." - surely they are part of the proper name here ? -- Beardo (talk) 19:05, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Legislation.gov's guidance for ministers and staff writing them states: "The title should begin with ‘The…’ and end with the year in which it is made. The only exception to using ‘The’ in SI titles is when they start with ‘[His] Majesty’s…’". On legislation.gov, "the" is only omitted in a few cases where it appears in the original text, so few that it is likely data entry errors. There are historical SIs without "the" in the title, but they are mainly Acts of Sederunt and Adjornal by Scottish courts.

I also agree that "the" is part of the proper name of the act, and thus should be included in the mainspace name. Penguin1737 (talk) 00:35, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

General comment There is no problem here at enWS with the definite article being used at the beginning of a title. A defaultsort with the "The" moved to the end of the title should be used, which disposes of the need for redirects. We are not enWP and do not follow their titling rules, as we are reproducing published works rather than writing new articles. If the title, as published, begins with "The …", then there is no question that we should follow suit in our titling. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:08, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Comment I too adopt the practice of dropping the "The" for statutory instruments (as well as other legislation), as it would create a bunch of texts categorized under "T" in relevant categories. The only case that I can think of is in case the "The" forms the name of some organization (as an example, The Legislative Council Commission Ordinance instead of Legislative Council Commission Ordinance). Again, this represents my style — some might well prefer naming texts like Statutory Instruments/1964/1973! My opinion is that (a) if "The" is included, make sure the categorization is based on the second word in the title, and (b) do provide suitable redirects for others.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:39, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

If you want to change how things are indexed in categories, use DEFAULTSORT:, don't misname them. And use standardised, not personal, styles. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:20, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

For information: on the technical side: {{header}} defaultsorts automatically now. e.g. The Lady of the Lake is categorised as Lady of the Lake, The. (It can be overriden by invoking defaultsort manually when needed.) — Alien  3
3 3 11:27, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

FYI, I've now raised the same issue on en.Wikipedia: w:Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Statutory instruments of the United Kingdom. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:35, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Tech News: 2025-12

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Weekly highlight

• Twice a year, around the equinoxes, the Wikimedia Foundation's Site Reliability Engineering (SRE) team performs a datacenter server switchover, redirecting all traffic from one primary server to its backup. This provides reliability in case of a crisis, as we can always fall back on the other datacenter. Thanks to the Listen to Wikipedia tool, you can hear the switchover take place: Before it begins, you'll hear the steady stream of edits; Then, as the system enters a brief read-only phase, the sound stops for a couple of minutes, before resuming after the switchover. You can read more about the background and details of this process on the Diff blog. If you want to keep an ear out for the next server switchover, listen to the wikis on March 19 at 14:00 UTC.

Updates for editors

• The improved Content Translation tool dashboard is now available in 10 Wikipedias and will be available for all Wikipedias soon. With the unified dashboard, desktop users can now: Translate new sections of an article; Discover and access topic-based article suggestion filters (initially available only for mobile device users); Discover and access the Community-defined lists filter, also known as "Collections", from wiki-projects and campaigns.
• On Wikimedia Commons, a new system to select the appropriate file categories has been introduced: if a category has one or more subcategories, users will be able to click on an arrow that will open the subcategories directly within the form, and choose the correct one. The parent category name will always be shown on top, and it will always be possible to come back to it. This should decrease the amount of work for volunteers in fixing/creating new categories. The change is also available on mobile. These changes are part of planned improvements to the UploadWizard.
• The Community Tech team is seeking wikis to join a pilot for the Multiblocks feature and a refreshed Special:Block page in late March. Multiblocks enables administrators to impose multiple different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. If you are an admin or steward and would like us to discuss joining the pilot with your community, please leave a message on the project talk page.
• Starting March 25, the Editing team will test a new feature for Edit Check at 12 Wikipedias: Multi-Check. Half of the newcomers on these wikis will see all Reference Checks during their edit session, while the other half will continue seeing only one. The goal of this test is to see if users are confused or discouraged when shown multiple Reference Checks (when relevant) within a single editing session. At these wikis, the tags used on edits that show References Check will be simplified, as multiple tags could be shown within a single edit. Changes to the tags are documented on Phabricator. [14]
• The Global reminder bot, which is a service for notifying users that their temporary user-rights are about to expire, now supports using the localized name of the user-rights group in the message heading. Translators can see the listing of existing translations and documentation to check if their language needs updating or creation.
• The GlobalPreferences gender setting, which is used for how the software should refer to you in interface messages, now works as expected by overriding the local defaults. [15]
• View all 26 community-submitted tasks that were resolved last week. For example, the Wikipedia App for Android had a bug fixed for when a user is browsing and searching in multiple languages. [16]

Updates for technical contributors

• Later this week, the way that Codex styles are loaded will be changing. There is a small risk that this may result in unstyled interface message boxes on certain pages. User generated content (e.g. templates) is not impacted. Gadgets may be impacted. If you see any issues please report them. See the linked task for details, screenshots, and documentation on how to fix any affected gadgets.
• Detailed code updates later this week: MediaWiki

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:48, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Template:Rbstagedir

A couple of points about this template.

First, in some works with rhs italic stage directions, if a character name appears in the direction then it is in normal text, not italic. Surrounding the relevant word with '' works fine except if it is the first word, when the template produces the wrong result. This error can be avoided by using the {{normal}} template (see following example).

[My name is Fred.

['Fred is my name.

[Fred is my name.

Second, the template assumes that a square bracket is required, which is not the case with a lot of works. It would be helpful if the template had the option to either include or not include the square bracket.

Regards, Chrisguise (talk) 06:12, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

I'd suggest using classes for the brackets: with something like .wst-rbstagedir-bracket, which could be display:none'd through index CSS. — Alien  3
3 3 06:23, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources

The New International Encyclopædia is a transcription of the 1905 version of The New International Encyclopædia. Only problem is, Volume 8 of the 1905 version does not exist on the internet. In a misguided attempt to work around this problem, User:Bob Burkhardt (aka User:Library Guy) created fake source pages for the 1905 volume 8 that he assembled from bits and pieces of volumes 7 and 8 from the 1903 edition, which is substantially different. See Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08. If you zoom in on the actual images used for these pages, you will see that they have been modified in an image editing program, complete with fake page numbers and even a fake volume number. This defeats the entire purpose of having scanned-backed sources, which is to make the text verifiable. For now, I've removed the mapping to the page images on Commons and removed the fake cover image. I've also nominated two of the images for deletion: Commons:Deletion requests/File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg. However, Bob created 40 of these pages on Commons before he gave up on the effort. I'm not sure what to do about the rest of it. Nosferattus (talk) 18:05, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Hathi has a copy of Vol. VIII, 1905 If we can get an Index set up from that scan, we can start to salvage what is possible to save. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:44, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Nice detective work, Pete! Nosferattus (talk) 18:51, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

The Orphan of the Rhine

We have (at least some of) all of the “horrid” novels, except one: The Orphan of the Rhine. I have just obtained scans of all four volumes, and (with Alien333’s help in splitting three of the volumes) they are now available at Author:Eleanor Sleath, if anyone would be interested in proofreading them. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:17, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Tech News: 2025-13

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Weekly highlight

• The Wikimedia Foundation is seeking your feedback on the drafts of the objectives and key results that will shape the Foundation's Product and Technology priorities for the next fiscal year (starting in July). The objectives are broad high-level areas, and the key-results are measurable ways to track the success of their objectives. Please share your feedback on the talkpage, in any language, ideally before the end of April.

Updates for editors

• The CampaignEvents extension will be released to multiple wikis (see deployment plan for details) in April 2025, and the team has begun the process of engaging communities on the identified wikis. The extension provides tools to organize, manage, and promote collaborative activities (like events, edit-a-thons, and WikiProjects) on the wikis. The extension has three tools: Event Registration, Collaboration List, and Invitation Lists. It is currently on 13 Wikipedias, including English Wikipedia, French Wikipedia, and Spanish Wikipedia, as well as Wikidata. Questions or requests can be directed to the extension talk page or in Phabricator (with #campaigns-product-team tag).
• Starting the week of March 31st, wikis will be able to set which user groups can view private registrants in Event Registration, as part of the CampaignEvents extension. By default, event organizers and the local wiki admins will be able to see private registrants. This is a change from the current behavior, in which only event organizers can see private registrants. Wikis can change the default setup by requesting a configuration change in Phabricator (and adding the #campaigns-product-team tag). Participants of past events can cancel their registration at any time.
• Administrators at wikis that have a customized MediaWiki:Sidebar should check that it contains an entry for the Special pages listing. If it does not, they should add it using * specialpages-url|specialpages. Wikis with a default sidebar will see the link moved from the page toolbox into the sidebar menu in April. [17]
• The Minerva skin (mobile web) combines both Notice and Alert notifications within the bell icon (). There was a long-standing bug where an indication for new notifications was only shown if you had unseen Alerts. This bug is now fixed. In the future, Minerva users will notice a counter atop the bell icon when you have 1 or more unseen Notices and/or Alerts. [18]
• View all 23 community-submitted tasks that were resolved last week.

Updates for technical contributors

• VisualEditor has introduced a new client-side hook for developers to use when integrating with the VisualEditor target lifecycle. This hook should replace the existing lifecycle-related hooks, and be more consistent between different platforms. In addition, the new hook will apply to uses of VisualEditor outside of just full article editing, allowing gadgets to interact with the editor in DiscussionTools as well. The Editing Team intends to deprecate and eventually remove the old lifecycle hooks, so any use cases that this new hook does not cover would be of interest to them and can be shared in the task.
• Developers who use the mw.Api JavaScript library, can now identify the tool using it with the userAgent parameter: var api = new mw.Api( { userAgent: 'GadgetNameHere/1.0.1' } );. If you maintain a gadget or user script, please set a user agent, because it helps with library and server maintenance and with differentiating between legitimate and illegitimate traffic. [19][20]
• Detailed code updates later this week: MediaWiki

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 22:42, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

disambiguate a portal?

I decided to tackle The Argosy and all of its name (and genre) changes. Then I boldly made Portal:Argosy and started to search for editions and volumes at Hathi.

The first thing I found was another magazine called The Argosy from Great Britain (late 1800s to 1901).

I thought for the portal to point to all of the Main for the various names of the American magazine but now I need to disambiguate. Can a portal do that?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:07, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

It can. See for example Portal:Georgia, which disambiguates between the country and the US state. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:32, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Coordinates display

Coordinates entered using {{coord}}:

{{Coord|52.657951|-1.078767|region:GB_type:landmark}}

52.657951°N 1.078767°W / 52.657951; -1.078767

are not displaying correctly; CSS should enure only DMS or decimal coordinates are shown. Users can configure this in their user.css file; see Template:Coord. Can someone import the necessary styles, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:07, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

If you need DMS or decimal, you should also add .geo-multi-punct { display: none } to your .css. • M-le-mot-dit (talk) 15:09, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

I know how to use it; the classes need to be styled for other users, and by default. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:14, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Default styles created as of Wikipedia.

dec {{Coord|52.657951|-1.078767}}: 52.657951°N 1.078767°W / 52.657951; -1.078767

dms {{Coord|52|39|29|N|1|04|44|W}}: 52°39′29″N 1°04′44″W

dec to dms {{Coord|52.657951|-1.078767|format=dms}}: 52°39′29″N 1°04′44″W

dms to dec {{Coord|52|39|29|N|1|04|44|W|format=dec}}: 52.65806°N 1.07889°W / 52.65806; -1.07889

• M-le-mot-dit (talk) 10:12, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Much better! Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:44, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Template:AuxBox and text embedded in images

I wanted to share how I've been transcribing text embedded in images, because I think it works really well and could be useful elsewhere. The template {{AuxBox}} was forked from {{AuxTOC}} a few years ago, and I've been using it to add a transcription of the text below the image. This has the benefit of allowing the text to be available as text, while also making it clear that the image and its transcription aren't provided separately in the original scan.

My only concern is that this might be considered a type of annotation per WS:ANN. Since I am using it only to provide two forms of faithful transcription at the same time, I don't think it should count - but if it does count as an annotation, I think we should make it an acceptable exception to WS:ANN (which I will propose as a separate discussion if we decide to go that way).

Here are some examples:

• Illustrated text: The Lamb by William Blake
• Manuscript facsimiles: Renunciation by Emily Dickinson
• Sheet music lyrics: Our God, Our Help in Ages Past by Isaac Watts

—Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 18:56, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

I just want to clarify that this is specifically for text embedded in an image—i.e. when there is an image that ought to be included, which also contains text that ought to be transcluded. It would not be appropriate, for example, to use this approach to add a page scan as an illustration in the transcription. —Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 19:09, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

My two cents:

• Illustrated text: traditionally, this'd be the sort of stuff we'd do with {{overfloat image}} and the like; in such cases where separating the image from the text is not doable, what I have mostly done is add the text as alt text of the image. The issue with that way is that you can't add formatting in alt-text. AuxBox sort of makes sense to me as a solution to that problem, though it's not necessarily what I'd have chosen.
• Manuscript facsimiles: This is, to me, what borders on WS:ANN. Here the facsimile is used as a frontispiece, and the intention is to show the handwriting. If it was a full-handwriting text, it'd would be logical to transcribe that, and we wouldn't show the handwriting in mainspace; but in a case like this, why not just link PRINTED IN THE FIRST VOLUME OF HER POEMS to Poems (Dickinson)/Renunciation? Adding that here seems to me to be adding something to this work.
• Sheet music: that use I really don't understand. At any rate in cases like this, when all of the lyrics are in the score. Why readd it?

— Alien  3
3 3 19:43, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

I do see your point. I agree that alt text is preferable, though it's only really possible if the text is short and the formatting doesn't matter. Overfloat image is also a valid alternative, where it is possible to do so, though it does have its drawbacks (e.g. it assumes that the font size is fixed relative to the image size). With regard to manuscript facsimiles and other illustrations of writing, I do see your point and think that it's a very reasonable point. As for sheet music, the fact that Lilypond renders text content as an image has always bothered me, since the rendered image is no more accessible than the scanned image, so in such a case I actually think that providing a transcription is almost a necessity in such cases. Ultimately, my intention with all this is to provide an equivalent of "alt text" for accessibility or other purposes, while allowing it to be faithful to the scan regardless of length, formatting, etc. —Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 20:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

My suggestion how to keep the original text design and add the text in a form accessible to searching engines etc., is to use the {{overfloat image}} with the image including the original text + adding the text over it using color:transparent. I used this very rarely when I considered the text important and at the same time really did not want to remove it from the picture, such as with the title "CANTO II" included inside the image at Page:Conversion of St Vladimir.pdf/33. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:09, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Interesting. That's also a good way to do it. I personally think that {{AuxBox}} is a nicer approach, but ultimately they serve the same purpose. —Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 13:20, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

That's a good idea! Thanks for sharing it. — Alien  3
3 3 13:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Wikisource talk:Deletion policy#Work-based categories

There's a discussion ongoing there on that. — Alien  3
3 3 19:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Page:s not linked from Index:

This is annoying for several reasons, but among other things it means that you can’t check changes to the Page:s from the Index:. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:12, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Can you link to an example of what this issue is? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:16, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

• Justin (koavf): This isn’t linked here, so nothing shows up there. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:39, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

  I understand that this is a problem associated with the Lua problem that occurred on 11 March. If you do a hard purge on the index page, that should restore the linking. -- Beardo (talk) 05:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)