Longines Chronoscope/23-07-1954

Narrator
It's time for the Longines Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Longines-Wittnauer Watch Company, maker of Longines, the world's most honored watch, and Wittnauer, distinguished companion to the world honored Longines.

Frank Knight
Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Longines Chronoscope: Larry Lesueur, from CBS television news staff, and Richard Witkin, of the United Press. Our distinguished guest for this evening is His Excellency Dr. Tingfu F. Tsiang, permanent representative from China to the United Nations.

Larry Lesueur
Around the head of our guest tonight gathers one of world's diplomatic storm clouds. The question, of course, is should his seat at the United Nations be taken by the representative of Communist China. Dr. Tsiang, now that an agreement has been signed in Indochina, how secure do you think your seat is at the United Nations?

Ambassador Dr. Tsiang Tingfu
The immediate effect of the agreement regarding Indochina on China's seat is very slight. The long range effect remains to be seen. When the General Assembly meets this fall, I anticipate a very hard struggle. I have no doubt that I will win.

Richard Witkin
Dr. Tsiang, why do you think the Chinese Communists are so anxious to get into the United Nations?

Tsiang
There is one reason, and one reason only: for the prestige that that seat would confer on them.

Witkin
I see. Well, do you think there would be any use in bringing Communist China into the United Nations to show them up, the way the Russians have been showed up by the use of so many vetoes and forcing them to take a stand on issues?

Tsiang
I think there are so many other ways of showing them up, so many other ways of forcing them to take a stand on things and that question. I just mentioned this fact of prestige, I'd like to add, prestige not only with the Chinese people, but prestige to throughout the Far East.

Lesueur
Dr. Tsiang, if the question of Communist China taking a seat at the United Nations should be pressed by some of the countries which have recognized Communist China, would you automatically veto it on the Security Council or would you wait for the United States to do it?

Tsiang
Not at all, I would immediately veto it, that is, in the Security Council.

Lesueur
I see. But how about the chances of defeating the move on other organs of the United Nations, like the General Assembly, where there is no veto?

Tsiang
Well, we have had that battle more than one hundred times already, and every time we have won. I think we will continue to wait.

Lesueur
Well, let me get this straight, in other words you don't think the United States would ever have to use its veto on the Security Council because you automatically would veto any move by Communist China to gain a seat there.

Tsiang
The veto is an indication of the policy of a government. It's up to the United States to decide whether she will veto or not. But that doesn't mean that my veto would make no necessity for USA to cast a veto.

Witkin
Well, do you mean, Sir, that there is a legal problem that Nationalist China might be considered procedurally to be an interested party and therefore might not be allowed vote on such an issue?

Tsiang
No, that cannot be true, there is no legal point to that. But I say the veto on the part of any government or any delegate is an indication of that delegation's policy, and we do not say vote differently because all those who vote in some particular way.

Lesueur
But, Dr. Tsiang, what makes you think that this question will be vetoable? Suppose it's regarded as a procedural question, as the Security Council has agreed, some of the great powers have agreed in the past, is not subject to the veto?

Tsiang
You remember when the question came up in the Security Council in the beginning of 1950, I drew the distinction between credentials and right of representation. Credentials may be considered a procedural question. If anybody questioned my credentials, that's procedural. And all you can do, you have to do is to wire to Ministry of Foreign Affairs Chancellor "now, does Tsiang Tingfu represent you?" What is at stake is the right of the government to representation. That is vetoable question because that is a question of the highest political importance.

Lesueur
Well, Dr. Tsiang, you say that you have defeated the question of Communist China's representation on the Assembly and other bodies of the UN more than a hundred times. But suppose you fail to defeat it once? Now, would it be legally possible for there to be two Chinas at the United Nations, Nationalist China on the Security Council and Communist China in the General Assembly or some other body of the UN?

Tsiang
I don't think that is possible, and I don't think that is desirable either. I think it's best for United States to face this issue. We must make a decision, one way or the other, not sort of compromise. I don't think it would get us anywhere.

Witkin
Well, what do you think would happen, Dr. Tsiang, if by some chance Communist China were voted into the General Assembly, say, where there is no veto. What would happen to the United Nations? What would its future be?

Tsiang
Well, I'm sure that many people in the world would lose faith in the United Nations. That would be a big blow to the prestige of the United Nations.

Lesueur
Dr. Tsiang, there have been people, some Congressmen in the United States, who have said that they think the United States should withdraw from the United Nations if Communist China were permitted to enter. Now, do you think that Nationalist China should withdraw if Communist China got a seat in any of the bodies at the UN?

Tsiang
Well, I wouldn't—I couldn't answer that question off-hand, it depends what sort of body it is. Suppose they got a seat in some inconsequential body, I don't think we'll withdraw.

Lesueur
Well, is it possible that there is a solution to the problems of the two Chinas between the problem of the Formosa government and the mainland government? Could there possibly be an agreement on, we'll say, a trusteeship for Formosa?

Tsiang
That's entirely out of the question. You know, to suggest a trusteeship for Formosa would be like, I just to make it clear, to suggest the people of New York that they should go back to (illegible text).

Lesueur
I see.

Witkin
Well, Dr. Tsiang, now that we've had this settlement at Geneva of the Indochina question, where do you think Red China will turn next?

Tsiang
I think the world communists including the communists of China will continue to exploit opportunities in Southeast Asia. That region at Indochina, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, that seems to me to be their primary center of concentration.

Lesueur
Do you think Formosa itself is in danger from the mainland forces of Communist China?

Tsiang
No, not so much. Some, not so much. The reason is because of the ocean between them. Red China does not have a military power, a naval power to speak of.

Lesueur
Well, Dr. Tsiang, is the converse also true? Is there any possibility of Nationalist China invading Communist China across the Straits from Formosa?

Tsiang
That is our plan, we want to do it. I cannot tell you when that will take place. I can assure you it will eventually take place.

Lesueur
But it would demand naval forces from your allies, principally the United States, I take it?

Tsiang
My own idea is that my government should acquire the power of independent offensive.

Witkin
Do you think, Dr. Tsiang, that Red China will ever engage in open aggression, the way the Koreans—the North Koreans did across the 38th parallel, or do you think their aggression will continue to be aggression by subversion, you might say.

Tsiang
I think in Southeast Asia the pattern they will continue to use is the one they have used in Indochina.

Witkin
Well, in that case, what can the West do to prevent these more subtle forms of aggression, where you don't have a clear, open and shut case of aggression?

Tsiang
The Western world can do several things. One, you must give the threatened peoples positive assurance that you are behind them. Secondly, you and other free countries should show those people and get their own governments, their own authorities, to work a plan whereby those peoples can be convinced that human beings have better ways of achieving a better standard of living than by way of communism.

Lesueur
Dr. Tsiang, as an official of the Formosa Nationalist government of China, what is your personal opinion of the agreement that has been reached in Indochina with the Vietminh communists and the Red Chinese communists?

Tsiang
I myself think it is a great mistake. First of all you have the material losses and gains to think of. Twelve million people, so much territory, and coal mines, tungsten, wolfram in North Vietnam. These are material gains or losses. Then on other hand, the immaterial, the invisible losses to the free world are immense. The free world has lost the confidence to a considerable degree of all the people of that region. And the morale of all these peoples has received a very severe blow. Today, when you think that Ho Chi Minh, leader of the Vietminh, nine years ago started with almost nothing and got today half of Vietnam. Now, with half of Vietnam, how much he can do in another nine years.

Lesueur
But, Dr. Tsiang, the world is in a state of momentary peace right now. How long do you think that state of security can last?

Tsiang
That's a very difficult question. The difference becomes... This way, nowadays it is difficult to tell whether we do or do not have peace. Take from this war in Indochina, the American people have generally become aware of it only in the last two or three years, but as a matter of fact, that war has been going on for nine years, ever since Japan surrendered. That's the reason why it's very difficult to answer questions of this kind. But if you should mean a big war, a third world war, I must say I have no answer to that, I don't think anyone can answer that.

Lesueur
Well, thank you very much Dr. Tsiang, it's been very interesting to hear your comments tonight.

Knight
The opinions expressed on the Longines Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Longines Chronoscope was Larry Lesueur and Richard Witkin. Our distinguished guest was His Excellency Dr. Tingfu F. Tsiang, permanent representative from China to the United Nations.

Knight
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Knight
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Narrator
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Produced by

ALAN R. CARTOUN

Directed by

TED ESTABROOK

Longines Chronoscope

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CBS Television

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