that there is always a body of firm patriots, who often shake a corrupt administration. Take mankind as they are, and what are they governed by? Their passions There may be in every government a few choice spirits, who may act from more worthy motives. One great error is, that we suppose mankind more honest than they are. Our prevailing passions are ambition and interest; and it will ever be the duty of a wise government to avail itself of those passions, in order to make them subservient to the public good; for these ever induce us to action. Perhaps a few men in a state may, from patriotic motives, or to display their talents, or to reap the advantage of public applause, step forward; but if we adopt the clause, we destroy the motive. I am therefore against all exclusion and refinements, except only this case, that, when a member takes his seat, he should vacate every other office. It is difficult to put any exclusive regulation into effect. We must, in some degree, submit to the inconvenience.
The question was then put for striking out—4 ayes, 4 noes, 3 states divided, New York of the number.
Adjourned till to-morrow morning.
Saturday, June 23, 1787.
Met pursuant to adjournment. Present, eleven states.
Mr. GORHAM. I move that the question which was yesterday proposed on the clause, "to be paid out of the national treasury," be now put.
Question put—5 ayes, 5 noes, 1 state divided. So the clause was lost.
Mr. PINCKNEY moved that that part of the clause which disqualifies a person from holding an office in the state be expunged, because the first and best characters in a state may thereby be deprived of a seat in the national council.
Mr. WILSON. I perceive that some gentlemen are of opinion to give a bias in favor of state governments. This question ought to stand on the same footing.
Mr. SHERMAN. By the conduct of some gentlemen, we are erecting; a kingdom to act against itself. The legislature ought to be free and unbiased.
Question put to strike out the words moved for, and carried—8 ayes, 3 noes.
Mr. MADISON then moved that, after the word "estab-
