Talk:Creation by Evolution

Author

The author is listed within the book only as "Frances Mason", with no other clues to the author's identity.

All the bibliographic references I can find where a copy of this book appears claim the author is "Frances Baker Mason", without any further identification or citing any references. However, the only places on the internet I can find this person mentioned are the same bibliographic listings, which (as far as I can tell) have probably copied the information site-to-site. I can find no institution where that supposed person was employed, and no information about their birth or death. I did find a short bit of research posted to this site where another researcher came to the same conclusion that the name in most library catalogs seems entirely fictitious.

I did find a "Frances Mary Young Mason", who published under the name "Frances Mason", who was born in New Zealand, but was working at Kew Gardens in the UK at the time the book was published, and who would have been at the height of her career in 1928.

Can anyone find any further information about the supposed first author beyond a database mention? Or can someone find information to corroborate my suspicion that the latter author is the true editor of the book? --EncycloPetey (talk) 07:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Searched "Frances Mason" on IA using text search, found discussion in "God -- or gorilla: images of evolution in the jazz age". The book describes her as "not a scientist" (p. 99) and consistently refers to her as "Frances Mason" only; this would seem to rule out Frances Mary Young Mason, at least. "Frances Baker Mason" does turn up a handful of hits on IA, with one listing "Mason, Frances (Baker)" as the author of "The Great Design: Order and Intelligence in Nature" (which is definitely edited by the same person as "Creation by Evolution") but I can't confirm its veracity. Might be a good idea to double-check the copyright listings. Arcorann (talk) 04:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I found the book. It appears to be a rebuttal of evolutionary theory by Alfred Watterson McCann (an American journalist), but I find no mention of Frances Mason on p.99. Assuming that you misread the page and the information is in there somewhere, just how did the author come to that conclusion? Is this a bald statement? Or was he assuming she was not a scientist because she is the one person associated with Creation by Evolution who is not listed with a plethora of credentials? A bald statement saying someone is "not a scientist" in an anti-evolution book must be regarded with suspicion. Doubly so if a man of that period is speaking about a woman.

Yes, I know about the additional hits for Frances "Baker" Mason at IA, but is there any evidence at all for such a person? How do you "know" it's the same person? Or are you making an assumption? --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure what book you found, but the one I was looking at is by Constance Areson Clark, published 2008. How the author came to her conclusion I couldn't say for sure, but elsewhere she cites correspondence between Mason and the biologists Conklin and Osborn, which might give an indication.

Re: your second paragraph, The Great Design: Order and Intelligence in Nature (1934) has "Edited by Frances Mason, editor of Creation by Evolution" on the title page, which I think is pretty definitive. The hit I found attributing it to "Mason, Frances (Baker)" was from Authors' names: an authoritative listing of personal and corporate names (1981), page 1140; it had no mention of Creation by Evolution. The other hit I found was Spiritual Values in Camping (1954) who cited "Frances Baker Mason" in a references section. Since then I've also located Religion in education; an annotated bibliography (1956) who lists "Mason, Frances Baker" on page 58, and The Booklist, Vol. 27, No. 9 (1931-05), who lists "Mason, Mrs. Frances (Baker)" on page 420 (the entry notes that this is a reprint; the original release was listed in Vol. 25 No. 2 (1928-11) and only has "Mason, Frances"; The Great Design is listed in Vol. 31 No. 4 (1934-12)). Arcorann (talk) 02:46, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The book I found was "God or Gorilla...", the very book you named in your previous comment. It seems you were actually referencing a completely different book that you did not identify? I do not know how you came to conclude the author or publication date; this scan of the book is copyrighted 1922, and is by Alfred Waterson McCann. It was published six years before Creation by Evolution.

So there is a published record for a person named Frances Baker Mason, and we may have found the sole publication trail that library databases are using as the authority for the author for the current book.

It would be nice to find some personal data about this person: date of birth; date of death; affiliations and such. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Looking back, I see that "God or Gorilla" is actually the title of two different books. All but one of the IA copies by this title are by McCann; but there is a lone copy by Clark. I have requested a physical copy of that book, in order to follow up on this lead. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:16, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The book has arrived. There are references to Frances Mason, enough to make me agree she is not the botanist, but I haven't yet found any personal data mentioned that would help me identify who she is. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:50, 24 September 2024 (UTC)