Deposition of Ali Alexander, (Dec. 9, 2021)/10:07am

Mr.   The time is 10:07 a.m. Good morning. This is a deposition of Mr. Ali Alexander conducted by the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capital, pursuant to House Resolution 503.

At this time, I would ask the witness to please state your full name and spell your last name for the record.

The Witness. My chosen and professional name is Ali Alexander. Ali is spelled A-l-i. I was born Ali Akbar, A-k, B as in boy, a-r.

Mr.   And what name would you like for us to use today for the purposes of this deposition?

The Witness. Mr. Alexander. I appreciate you guys.

Mr.   No problem, Mr. Alexander.

So this will be a staff-led deposition, and members, of course, may choose to also ask questions throughout this deposition. In the room today you have myself,  , investigative counsel,  , senior investigative counsel,  , senior investigative counsel,  , the parliamentarian. And then members, we have Ms. Zoe Lofgren and Mr. Adam Kinzinger.

Under the House deposition rules, neither committee members nor staff may discuss the substance of testimony you provide today unless the committee approves release. You and your attorney will have the opportunity to review the transcript.

Before we begin, I'd like to describe a few ground rules. We will follow the House deposition rules that we provided to your counsel previously. Under the House deposition rules, counsel for other persons or government agencies may not attend, and you are permitted to have an attorney present. I would like to note for the record that what was previously presented to Mr. Alexander's attorney as exhibit 1 is the subpoena for Mr. Ali Akbar, Mr. Ali Alexander, which is dated October 21, 2021. You are here for this deposition pursuant to that subpoena. The House deposition rules are included in this exhibit, which is exhibit 1, and were previously provided to you and your counsel.

At this time, would counsel please state their name for the record?

Mr. Kamenar. Yes. Paul Kamenar, K-a-m-e-n-a-r.

Mr. McBride. Joseph Daniel McBride, M-c capital B-r-i-d-e. Good morning.

Mr.   There is also an official reporter transcribing the record of this deposition. Please wait until each question is completed before you begin your response. And we will try to wait until your response is complete before we ask our next question.

The stenographer cannot record nonverbal responses such as shaking your head. So it is important that you answer each question with an audible verbal response. If I notice you're using a nonverbal response, I may ask you to clarify it with your words on the record.

We ask that you provide complete answers based on your best recollection. If the question is not clear, please ask for clarification. If you do not know the answer, simply say no.

You may only refuse to answer a question to preserve a privilege recognized by the select committee. If you refuse to answer is question based on privilege, staff may either proceed with the deposition, or seek a ruling from the chairman on that objection. If the chairman overrules such an objection, you are required to answer the question.

I also want to remind you it is unlawful to deliberately provide false information to Congress. Since this deposition is under oath, providing false information could result in criminal penalties for perjury and/or providing false statements.

Do you understand that, Mr. Alexander?

The Witness. I do.

 . Would you please stand and raise your right-hand to be sworn in?

[Witness sworn.]

 . Can we please confirm that no one in the room is recording other than the official reporting of this deposition?

Mr. Kamenar. No.

The Witness. We're good.

Mr.   Thank you.

Logistically, please let us know if you need any breaks or would like to discuss anything with your attorney, Mr. Alexander, and we will go on recess so that you can do so. There also may be several people asking you questions here today, including the members. If you don't understand the question from them as well, just simply ask for clarification.

Now, Mr. Alexander, I understand that you prepared an opening statement. If you could like it enter that statement into the record, the select committee can accommodate that and we have previously marked it as Exhibit 41 in your binder. Would you like to also give a statement, provide a statement verbally?

The Witness. Yes, I would. I got my final statement this morning so.

Mr.   Would you like to enter that it into the record in lieu of what has been previously marked as Exhibit 41?

The Witness. Absolutely.

[Alexander Exhibit No. 41
Was marked for identification.]

Mr.   Can you please provide that to us and to the court reporter?

The Witness. Yes.

[Alexander Exhibit No. 42
Was marked for identification.]

Mr.   Mr. Alexander, as this was not a congressional hearing, witnesses are not invited or entitled to deliver an opening statement. However if you with like to deliver a brief statement on the record, we will allow you to do so now.

The Witness. I would like to.

Mr.   Thank you. Proceed.

The Witness. Good morning, Chairman Thompson, members of the committee, and committee staff. My name is Ali Alexander. With my today are my legal counsel, Joseph McBride, Paul Kamenar, and unfortunately Baron Coleman who has been corresponding with you could not attend  

I want to be crystal clear at the outset, I had nothing to do with any violence or law breaking that happened on January 6th. I had nothing to do with the planning of violence. I had nothing to do with the preparation of violence. I had nothing to do with the execution of violence.

Any suggestion to the contrary is factually false. Anyone who suggests that I had anything do with the unlawful activities of January 6th is wrong. They are either mistaken or lying. Period.

It is not uncommon in the aftermath of historic chaos and disruption to look for a bogeyman. After all, someone must be held accountable, right? As an Arab man and a Black man, an American, it is common for people who look like me to be blamed for things that we did not do. On top of that, my birth name can sound scary to the uninformed and uneducated. It has often been used as a weapon against me by both the left wing and the right wing. Ali Abdul-Razaq Akbar, someone with that name, that terrifying must have done something wrong, right?

Again, I want to be perfectly clear. I did absolutely nothing wrong. I don't hide from who I am. I'm the American Dream. My mother was a Black mother in Section 8 housing. My father was an Arab man who disappeared when I was just 2 years old. About 15 years ago or so, I was arrested on two different occasions for petty crimes. I won't re-litigate the merits of those offenses in this short time, but two arrests in your early twenties as a Black man often sets people back, so far back, that they never again find firm footing upon which they can succeed.

I managed to collect those two criminal charges as I was just starting out as an adult. I had every reason to fail in life, but I refused to fail. My faith in Christ refused to allow me to fail.

Instead, I worked to change the system people insisted was supposed to hold me down. I got involved in politics and started putting together coalitions, rallies, raising awareness for a variety of candidates and causes I believe in. I went from riding in the back of a cop car as the accused to advising the Presidential administration on criminal justice reform.

I used a silhouette of my most tragic youthful mug shot on a T-shirt to raise money for fatherless Black boys. Boys who were growing up like me. I've hosted hundreds of rallies with millions of participants in all 50 States, not one single rally, to my knowledge, has ever turned violent, not one, never. That's not a coincidence. I demand nonviolence at my events. I demand nonviolence among my membership and leadership. I demand it nonviolence among my associates.

My leadership and I work closely with law enforcement at every event to ensure peace and order. We obey rules and commands, we treat officers and officials with the respect they deserve. Those principles were not compromised on January 6th. In fact, I stated on numerous occasions that I support the production of legislative solutions and recommendations on how to best avoid future collapses of civil order and violence at the Capital. I've stated on numerous occasions that I support the work of law enforcement agencies to prosecute those who committed violent acts on January 6th.

There are a number of videos of my associates and me arriving at the Capitol on January 6th, after the violence had begun, but early in the stage—in the early stages of law breaking. And those videos our group can be seen working with officers to try to end the violence and law-breaking. We can be seen yelling and screaming at people to stop trying to breach the Capitol, and to stop violent law-breaking in general. I believe those videos have been provided to the committee. If they have not, we'll happily share them.

While I was actively trying to deescalate events at the Capitol to end the violence and law-breaking, it is my believe that this many have not been a problem had the Women for America First leadership at the Ellipse event not intentionally removed instructions from the program that were supposed to be included to provide clarity on exactly where to go following the Ellipse event, and that was to Lot 8, the north side of Capitol Grounds, where we had a permit.

When I protested the removal of these instructions, I was barred from participating as an organizer or speaker at the Ellipse event that preceded the Capitol riot. Ultimately, I became just a VIP guest at the Ellipse event. As a result, civil authority collapsed before the Ellipse rally was even over, this is well-documented before I arrived and before my event was ever scheduled to begin. I want to clarify, my permitted event at Lot 8 never took place on the northeast side of the Capitol Grounds. The quote, "One Nation Under God" event that Stop the Steal did not start the chaos. The chaos was well underway before our event was scheduled to begin. We never held our event, we weren't allowed to.

In closing, I want to reiterate my efforts to comply with the committee's subpoena. Over the past few weeks, I've spent more than 80 hours personally searching through my archives, looking for relevant and responsive documentation to the committee's request. I have probably spent another 120 hours preparing for your answers over the past 3 weeks. And I've hired attorneys and computer consultants to be as responsive as possible, to provide as much as I can find within the short amount of time that I had to produce documents.

We have submitted hundreds of pages of documents representing thousands of records, emails and texts, even though much of what is sought over is not pertinent to the committee's purpose, or in some cases, subject to privilege. I did all this despite not being accused of a crime. I did all this despite being a private citizen with constitutional rights protecting me from unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant entitling anyone to the documents in some cases, I voluntarily provided. It has prevented me from working. It has preventing me from sleeping at times. And it has been extremely difficult and burdensome, but I am here to do the patriotic thing voluntarily.

If this committee thinks of anything I haven't turned over to which you believe I have access to, I ask that you please let me know and how much refresh my memory. I receive, at times, hundreds, or even thousands of texts, or emails a day. I appear at all hours of day and night on media and social media and do interviews, livestreams, and chats. I can't possibly remember everything I've seen, everything I've heard, everything I've read or said.

I went from living the American Dream ta experiencing an American nightmare, where my for my skin color, my birth name, my party affiliation, who I voted for in 2024, my ability to earn a living, my belief that Christ is king, and a concerns about election irregularities have been weaponized against me. But I can assure you I have you nothing to hide because I have done nothing wrong.

We may disagree politically, they call politics a contact sport after all. But at heart, we're all Americans. We stand before God and our fellow man in a great social contract where we promise to do the best to get it right. May God have mercy on us and us peace for how we treat each other at times in the world of politics.

I thank you for your time. I look forward to answering any questions you have. And one thing I'd like to add is while America is divided on many issues, at the end of the day our First Amendment rights to assemble to protest, whether on the right or the left, should be protected and should be protected by this body. To prevent future unlawful activity which is the goal of this committee, whether from those who stormed the Capitol, or those abortion rights activists who stormed the Supreme Court, or blocked Justice Kavanaugh's confirmation, or BLM rioters, that is a matter of law enforcement, not the suppression of free speech and assembly. Thank you.

Mr.   Thank you, Mr. Alexander.

Before we get into the questions, I would like to note for the record that I will be referring to exhibits throughout the questioning here today and it won't be in a sequential order. There is premarked in your binders, so I will be referring to a different documents throughout the day. I just want to make everyone I might start with Exhibit 26, I might go to Exhibit 2, but they have all been premarked and have all been provided to you in your binders here today.

Mr. Kamenar. Thank you.

EXAMINATION

BY  

Q So Mr. Alexander, let's start with Exhibit 26, let's start there. I'll give you time to flip to that exhibit. And I want to orient you a little bit. Let's go to the evening of January 5th. And can you go to page 211, there's Bates numbers in the bottom corner.

Mr. Kamenar. Exhibit 26?

Mr.   26. Yes.

Mr. Kamenar. Is that the one with the—

Mr.  . That's correct. That's correct. Page 211.

BY  

Q So this is the evening of January 5th at approximately 7:19 p.m., you text a Ms. Liz Willis, what appears to be an itinerary for January 6th. You said "Ellipse," then the "U.S. Capitol. Trump is supposed to order us to the Capitol at the end of his speech, but we will see." So on January 5th around this time, just walk us through what events you planned to attend on January 6th?

A I'm sorry. Can you repeat that?

Q At this time on January 5th, that evening, walk us through what your plans of what events you were going to attend on January 6th?

A The first thing I want to state it is 7:19 p.m., I'm trying to place myself. A great deal of my actions are captured on video, so I wouldn't rely on memory to tell me where I was texting this reporter. So Liz Willis is with RSBN. She's a reporter asking about logistical information to the best of my knowledge.

Q I'll make it a little easier then—

A Can I—

Q Oh yes, you can finish.

A Just for clarification, I don't know that this is 7:00 p.m.—7:19 p.m., it looks like it could be a.m. because—

Q Okay. Sorry about—so 7:19 a.m. So the day before January 6th, what were your plans for January 6th? What events were you going to go to?

A From what I recall, January 6th was about attending the Ellipse event at 6:00 or 7:00 a.m. to help guide VIPs to try to figure out when my speaking slot was going to be, to make sure they had control of all that media, et cetera. Sal don't know when I arrived, but it was certainly early. And to the best of my memory, it was certainly, you know, before 7:30 or 8:00, but these text messages will probably provide a better accounting of that time.

And again, on January 5th thinking about what am I expecting to do on January 6th at the conclusion of the President's speech, you know, he's going to keynote it obviously, we were going to exit and then go to Lot 8 where we had a permit for a coalition called "One Nation Under God," Stop the Steal was the funder of it; Stop the Steal was the main organizer of it, but it was a religious and political thing. We exhausted all of our other political options and left it up to Congress. And so, that is my awareness.

And what I want to convey to the committee is that you don't tell the President when to stop speaking. So while a lot of us may have said, Oh, this would be beautiful if it ended at 12:30, it could have ended at 1:00 or 1:30 and that would affect the lot 8 event. So anyway, I think to the best of my recollection, on January 5th, the only two events I'm planning to attend are the Ellipse event, and then the Lot 8 event, but I'm aware of, like, a dozen—nearly a dozen other events happening within proximity and others. And it's not foreign that people would pull me aside and ask me to attend something.

Q Thank you. And just to clarify, when you say Lot 8, where is Lot 8?

A Lot 8 is, and this is a ser—it is kind of—it's not embarrassing, but just to show you how kind of—I've worked in politics a long time, but I've tried to avoid D.C., is my best understanding is that Lot 8 is on the northeast side the Capital Grounds. So it is not the Capital Plaza, it is not the Capital Building, it is the northeast side the Capitol Grounds.

In many of my text messages I think I'm referring to as south. And so think that my attorneys have tried to provide clarification and correspondence, but I'm not—I think that happened, but—

Q But just to be clear, your plans on January 5th for the next day is that you were going to the Ellipse and then you were going to go to the Capitol Grounds. Those are the two events?

A I can't recall anything outside of those two permanent events.

Q Okay. And on January 5th what were your expectations for the attendees? Where were they going to go on January 6th? Where did you think the participants—what events were they going to go to?

A You're ask—well, to be honest, I couldn't—you know, I want to speculate with you, but I'm being asked to recall about what I thought on January 5th, and that's 11 months ago. And, you know, out of an abundance of caution, I don't want to give you false testimony, so while I'd like to engage on speculating with you, the text messages probably provide more information than I could 11 months later.

Q So let's do that then. On the same page in your same text with Ms. Liz Willis, you say, "Trump is supposed to order us to the Capitol at the end of the speech, but we will see." So your expectation is you were going to go from the Ellipse and by "us," the attendees, to the Capitol, correct?

A The Lot 8 event followed the Ellipse event schedule-wise. And there is—I don't know what the perimeter was, in November it was something, in December it got wider, and then in January, you know, the D.C. authorities made it even wider. The only way of getting from one physical location to another is to walk over, and so that's that.

Q So just to confirm, you were going to attend the Ellipse, and the attendees and you were going to walk over to the Capitol Grounds following it?

A Or use a golf cart.

Q Or use a golf cart?

A Yes.

Q But travel, travel from the Ellipse to the Capital Grounds?

A Yeah. I mean, I didn't have access to any other means of transporting myself, to my knowledge.

Q So I want to go back to something you said a little earlier, I guess on the Sth, you believed you were going to be a speaker at the Ellipse on January 6th?

A Absolutely.

Q And why did you think that you were going to be a speaker at the Ellipse event?

A I think my text messages and email correspondences that I have provided to the committee represent—unfortunately, I'm watching it be debated in the press and on Twitter, but contemporaneously it wasn't a debate. I'm talking with a Trump campaign staffer, the representations that are being made to me are contemporaneously being proven true. There was some suspicion among some of my associates that, no, no, no, we're being played. But that's not—I didn't see any evidence of that. And I had heard that there was some people who didn't want me to speak, but that's not the representation from the Trump campaign official that I got. And so, I can attest that my text messages, my emails, and the fact that I showed up that early attests to the fact that I, 100 percent, believed, you know—again, I'm recalling something 11 months later, but that I was the speaker at this event.

Q Who—

A And—

Q Okay.

A I'll just provide some more rope. But, you know, even evidenced by this is a—breitbart.com ran a story saying I was a speaker. And I don't know when that article came out and I didn't talk to Breitbart about that article, so I had every belief to believe that I was a speaker at the Ellipse event.

Q Who was the Trump campaign staffer that you were just referencing?

A The Trump campaign official that I was just representing was Caroline Wren.

Q Who is Ms. Caroline Wren?

A Caroline is a political consultant. She, you know, I don't know like, you know, what her official titles were. I knew that she was a fundraiser. And I knew that she either had the Trump campaign, or PAC, or we all—I work in politics, I guess you guys work in government, but when we say someone works for something, we could be talking about a larger collection of entities, whether it is, like, a joint fundraising committee, or a PAC, or a campaign. So during it, Caroline Wren was working with the President's son and Kimberly Guilfoyle to do fundraising, and was the person who initially reached out and said she reached out on behalf of, let's call it Trump world, and wanted to unite these events.

Q What role did Ms. Wren represent to you? What washer role that she represented to you? Did she say I'm part of the Trump campaign?

A That was 12 months ago—or that was, like, 11 months and 2 weeks ago or so. So I wouldn't be able to recall specifically. What I believe, you know, based off my best recollection that I colloquially called her in my internal communications with people and on conference calls and stuff like that that she was with the Trump campaign. So I can't—if I said something else, you know, that's possible. If it was more detailed, but—but just on the record.

Q So just, it was your understanding at this time in January that Ms. Caroline Wren was part of the Trump campaign. Is that fair to say?

A What's fair to say is that Caroline Wren represented greater access to the decisionmakers in Trump world, in Trump world it could be the RNC, it could be the Trump campaign, it could be the joint fundraising committee, with any number of entities. And again, just out of the abundance of caution, because you know, I wasn't asked to volunteer my testimony. I'm here under subpoena. And I know you guys have got a job do. And I know that there's been some, you know, adversarial accusations about me, but you know I would love to nail it more down for you, but I think that's what I can give you.

Q So it was Ms. Wren who asked you to speak at the Ellipse on January 6th, to the best of your recollection?

A To the best of my recollection.

Q Okay. You mentioned that Ms. Wren worked with President Trump's son and Ms. Kimberly Guilfoyle. Can you please elaborate more on that working relationship for us?

A No. But if you have a specific question, I couldn't because I wasn't with them.

Q What did she represent to you. How was she working with the President's son and Ms. Kimberly Guilfoyle?

A Well, what's been widely recorded is that she works in a fundraising capacity officially with Kimberly Guilfoyle. And I think it was either RNC part-time and Trump campaign part-time or something like that, you know, consultants we're allowed to have a lot of hats. But, you know, you have like different guidance memos and firewalls. So if I represented anything more to you, I would be speculating. But—and then obviously, as I understand the President's son, you know, was at a lot of these events. I don't know that he was a contractor getting paid for his work. He's obviously a surrogate for his father.

Q Which son, just so we're clear?

A Donald Trump, Jr.

Q So I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You understood Ms. Wren's role with Ms. Kimberly Guilfoyle and Mr. Donald Trump, Jr. based upon public reporting. Is that true?

A We certainly had a conversation about it.

Q Okay.

A But I can't recall it 12 months later.

Q Got it.

A I'm sorry.

Q Oh, no worries. No worries at all.

So in your view, who was in charge of the January 6th event at the Ellipse? For example, was it Stop the Steal? Was it the White House? Was it Women for America First? Who was in charge of that event?

A Could you clarify what you mean by in charge?

Q Who was responsible for the decisionmaking of the January 6th event at the Ellipse?

A You know, I've done 15 years of political organizing, and I've been doing events since, I think, 2010, I think 2010. I did help the RNC in 2008, but—I don't want to be coy, but coalition-type events, the decision tree it really depends on what silo of the event you're kind of talking about, what aspect you're talking about.

Different people have different expertises, different people have different personalities, different people are in a different pecking order in life, you know. And so—so again, if you ask me, your first question is, who was in charge, it would be speculative far me to say something. And it would be a characterization that is subjective, and probably categorizes more than what you guys should actually want. You guys should want a more detailed probing into the event, and a general answer like that I don't think would—it would just require my speculation and not serve the purpose.

Q Soon the morning of January 6th, who did you understand made the decision that you would not speak?

A I'm trying to relive that moment real quick.

Q Take your time.

A So here's my best memory, if I could walk you through it. I arrive to the Ellipse event in a golf cart, permitted golf cart. There is feuding at the VIP tables. I have a very strong personality, and online, I represent myself very aggressively. But anyone who knows me, knows that I'm generally a peacemaker, a dealmaker, a coalition builder. And I bring a variety of people together, and there's press reports that accuse me of, like, even of White supremacy and stuff like—it is frankly bizarre some of the things I get accused of because I'm actually a big tent guy.

And so, I remember helping to contribute to squash that beef. And I did so with my reputation as the founder of Stop the Steal. So that's the authority I was using.

And so, in a situation like that, imagine this, there are people who have physical badges. Okay, so is that person in charge? There is a decisionmaker somewhere. There is same one who gave them the badges. And then there's me, you know, who is saying, I really don't care right now, this needs to work this way.

Anyway, I wanted to describe that microcosm event to you so that you could understand what would take place when we finally got into the rally. So we got through the Secret Service. They are running the metal detectors. We walked through a muddy field. We walked past the press. And then the VIP seating section I can't recall, but I want to recall. I don't know when, because I went out and in several times, but there might have been a hold-up initially again, because people are trying to decide is this the Stop the Steal event? Is this the Women for America First? Is this a Trump event? Is this a TP USA event? You know, and this is a lot of egos and personalities.

Anyway, as we make it through there, I immediately make a B line towards the front to see if there's a seating chart, because the seats that you can immediately see there is no seating chart. When we walk up there we finally see a seating chart, and I'm really happy with my seat, obviously. You know, and then I find Caroline Wren to thank her. And ask her when I'm speaking. And she said, don't get me started. And that's what I recall her saying. That's my best recollection. And I said, that's not an answer. And I actually need an answer because I'm going to go speak. And I haven't prepared a speech, okay? None of my speeches over the 60-plus days of Stop the Steal, to my recollection, were prepared, none of them, okay. And the Ellipse wasn't going to be any different. And because I wanted more people to speak from the Stop the Steal coalition I actually was going to take 3 to 5 minutes.

So then I'm informed that the police were called on Caroline Wren by Tyler Kramer, and this is—you guys haven't asked this, and my lawyer is probably, like, what are you doing, but I'm thinking, this is kind of a brain fart moment. This is a Trump campaign official, wearing Trump gear, who is the only reason this event exists, and has done great work, and has been a peacemaker, and delivered on the goods. She delivered the President, you know, that's a big, that's a big deal. And you're telling me that a PAC or a (c)(4) or whatever of people who I have been friends with, you know, prior to November for a decade through, you know, thick and thin, that they called the police on her. Okay. I'm trying to figure out why are you still here? What authority do they have to call the police? I do know the permit's in their name, but that's is kind of like a placeholder. And what does Don, Jr. think about this? What does Kimberly think about this, you know?

And so a—so I'm trying to figure out whether I'm being played by Caroline, or whether I got, you know, screwed over for lack of a better term by Kylie and Amy Kremer, because they are the permit holder and they have a legal—so the National Park Service has a legal obligation to service the name on the permit.

And so, I actually press her for more answers, because I need to figure out what the heck is going on because there's a lot of people who look to me to tell them what then they are going to. Activist Scott Pressler and other people. And so, again, my best recollection from an event that's 11 months ago, but this was obviously a moment that really pissed me off. And, you know, it is kind of playing itself out now.

So then she proceeds to tell me that the National Park Service or police or whatever got called, they showed up, they did try to kick her out. They decided not to, and that she was avoiding it. And it is probably best just to be a team player, Ali. And I felt taken advantage of. And not by Trump, and not by the Trump campaign, and not by Caroline. It just looked like more drama. And, you know, I said, Well, what about my other speakers? Because I can understand if somebody has some personal vendetta against me, what about the others? And I was told, no, we have no control. So then I say, okay, well if it this is kind of a federated decision-making process—and I hope in this answer you can see why I didn't invade your previous answer. I am just describing like this is how events go. It is very hard for people to believe that, but my story establishes that this is true.

So when I tried to go backstage, this guy in military boots and all this other stuff who has a Women for America badge on him—America First blocks me. He's, like, you're not going out there, Ali. I'm, like, how does this dude know my name, but a lot of people know he my name. But he said it with a personal, you know—it was almost like this had been prepared, you know.

And so, that let me know that I did not get screwed over by Caroline, that this was something that happened in the last minute. Where it happened, I would just have to figure out in the months or weeks later. My answer is going long, isn't it? So—so yeah, I think that answered your question.

Q We'll come back toa little later when we get to the day of January 6th. But sticking with the evening or the day of January 5th, in that same message, to Ms. Willis you say Trump is supposed to order us there. Order us, it refers to the Capitol complex after the speech at the Ellipse. Was this—did you come to this understanding through Ms. Caroline Wren? Is that who told you that?

A That was—that was—that was 11 months ago, I couldn't tell you how exactly I came to that understanding. It is obvious—I can tell that you Liz Willis is a good journalist. I'd have no reason in this text message at 7:19 a.m. to lie. And I do know that I'm obviously pretty busy at this moment firing off a text and hoping that it that it gets through the condensed cell tower, you know, there's a lot of people there. And so, you know, during these things you're chattering with a lot of people so.

Q So you don't know how you came about telling Ms. Willis that Trump was supposed to order us? You don't remember haw you came to that conclusion?

A Eleven months later with the specificity that is required when swearing before God under oath, no.

BY  :

Q May I just ask, Mr. Alexander, was there anyone other than Caroline Wren who you were talking to at the time who claimed to be speaking on behalf of the White House that you can remember whether about this or any other aspect of that event?

A Oh man, that. On behalf of the White House. Well, you said White House, and I haven't said White House at all.

Q On behalf—replaying what the President's plans were.

A There was a lot of chatter and in these situations, sometimes you'll hear something third party and it is credible and sometimes not. And, you know, as a professional in this space, somebody—what I will say is unique about Donald J. Trump to politics is everyone thinks they are his adviser, that everyone thinks they know exactly what he's saying. It has been very widely reported that—that, you know, the last thing said in his ear is the thing he'll do. And, so, if I gave you a specific answer, it wouldn't be doing you justice or me justice. My main point of contact with what I'm calling Trump world was Caroline Wren regarding what I consider the scope of the committee, and that's January 6th.

Mr. Kamenar. That's all.

Mr   I would like to note for the record that Mr. Kinzinger has left and that Mr. Schiff has joined the deposition.

BY  

Q So going back to January 5th, when you are thinking about the plans, after leaving the Ellipse, where were the attendees supposed to go on the Capitol complex Grounds?

A Nowhere, anywhere and everywhere. And I would say, you know, supposed to—these are adults, and there are, I think, a dozen events happening in D.C. The only reason I'm aware of this again is because a lot of people and a lot of chatter are talking to me. There's Lot 8 this, that's my event obviously. There's Lot 9. And the U.S, Capitol Police represented to my consultant that there was an event at 9, 10, at 11, and then I heard something was adjacent like a medical freedom rally or whatever. And so, could all of the attendees, were they supposed to go anywhere? No. Did we want same attendees to attend Lot 8? Absolutely. But it was our understanding that obviously all of those people could not fit on Lot 8. Lot 8 has a—we are in a 3-D world.

Q Let's go to your event on Lot 8 at the Capitol Grounds. Who was supposed to speak at your event on Lot 8?

A Well, I think for the purpose of this deposition, we should clarify just to do the record justice that it wasn't an event, that it was a planned event, that it was an event that was supposed to happen. It is an event that was prevented from happening. When you get a permit from the U.S. Capitol Police, they say that they will provide you barricades and protection. We got neither one of those. And that's the not the fault of U.S. Capitol Police, but we weren't provided either one of those. Okay.

So there was no way our event was going to be able to take place. And then, obviously, there's everything else that was happening. So, but who did I plan to, you know, speak at the Lot 8 event? Some of those people were at the website that you guys infamously have. And others of those had expired because the event moved. So the original Lot 8 event was scheduled for like 7—not 7, 9 a.m. or something like that.

And when the Ellipse event emerged, we moved that event to whenever Trump would be done speaking. And the best guess we could have was 1 o'clock, because that's when Congress was, you know, constitutionally ordered to gavel in in their joint session.

So I couldn't—I can't recall all the speakers. I'm trying ta be—you know, I'm trying to provide the record and y'all, the committee, with as much an information as I can. Obviously, the Members of Congress were no longer going ta be able to speak, because they were in session. But the original plan was that they would be able to speak if there was no Ellipse event.

Q So what Members of Congress were originally supposed to speak at your event?

A I can say with certainty one name, and that's, you know, Representative Paul Gosar was going to speak if the event was happening at 9 a.m. or whenever, whenever I said it was starting. And what happens is that a variety of people, like, for example, you know, there's a Pennsylvania radio show hast Rose Tennent who is very close friends with Representative Mike Kelly. And so, what I would say is I didn't talk to Representative Mike Kelly, and I didn't talk to his staff. And I didn't get a confirmation. And I didn't even know that he's on the website. And probably shouldn't be volunteering information.

But what I am saying is that I try my best to represent things that are true. And things get updated or moved and that's been butchered in the press. I actually think that this committee, you know, obviously is going to understand a truer version of events than has ever been reported, and that's unfortunate, because a lot of people are taking even deepfakes, or photoshops, or real images online and saying this didn't happen or this, this. And it is like, well, things were moving all the way up until the morning of January 6th when my speech is canceled.

So, you know, Dr. Paul Gosar was certainly scheduled to originally speak, but no Member of Congress was going to be able to speak because they were in joint session afterwards. And so different Stop the Steal organizers confirmed different Members of Congress. And if someone made a representation to me that someone was going to speak then, you know, I definitely authorized that we could post them on the website.

Q So going back to Mr. Gosar—and by the way, I need to note for the record that Mr. Kinzinger has rejoined the deposition.

So going back to Mr. Gosar, who did you coordinate with ta have him originally speak at your event? understand the plans charged, but who did you coordinate to have him there when you were planning the event?

A That was probably his—could you repeat the question?

Q Who did you coordinate with when you originally were planning the event at the Capitol Grounds to have Mr. Gosar speak?

A I believe I was coordinating with his chief of staff. It's possible—I know that I met one or two other staffers in Arizona, but obviously, you know, as is constitutionally permitted, Dr. Paul Gosar and I share political beliefs about election irregularities. And he had been a friend to the movement and, you know, he is a stellar dude, and so, yeah.

Q So when you say Mr. Gosar's chief of staff, are you referring to Mr. Thomas Van Flein?

A Yes. And my answer was conditioned on a couple of other things, but yeah.

Q Did you ever speak to Mr. Gosar directly about your plans to have him speak on January 6th?

A I don't recall.

Q And just to be clear, there were no other members of Congress that you were communicating with about speaking on January 6th, only Mr. Gosar's staff?

A I don't believe that's what I said. I said who I could tell you with percent certainty was Representative Gosar. And that there was a coalition effort to recruit several members and get them confirmed for the original Lot 8 event which was supposed to take place in the morning there was no Ellipse rally.

Q So with 100 percent certainty you only recall reaching out to Mr. Gosar's staff for the January 6th event?

A That's the only specific name I can recall right now. Yeah.

Q Thank you.

So let's stay on January 5th—

A Can I insert something in the record to help?

Q No, I will keep asking the questions.

Oh, also, did you ever talk to Mr. Anthony Foti, F-o-t-i, from Mr. Gosar's staff?

A That name doesn't ring a bell.

Q So let's stay on January 5th. Did you speak to Ms. Guilfoyle, Ms. Kimberly Guilfoyle on January 5th?

A Yes.

Q All right. When did you talk to her, approximately? Was it afternoon, morning, evening?

A I believe it was the evening.

Q And how did you talk to her, was it in person, was it over the phone?

A Phone.

Q And what did you discuss with Ms. Guilfoyle on January 5th?

A On January 5th, it was a surprise phone call. It wasn't one I requested, it wasn't planned. And I remember being thanked for making voting rights and election integrity key issues for the Republican Party. I remember back and forth about the Georgia election. And I'm pressing my memory right now—it really was a thank-you call. And that—I believe it was mainly a thank-you call.

Q Did she call you?

A I received the phone call.

Q And it was Ms. Gui—

A I believe, I believe, I believe.

Q Fairenough. And it was Ms. Guilfoyle, it wasn't Ms. Caroline Wren, correct?

A It was on Caroline Wren's number.

Q Okay. So Ms. Kimberly Guilfoyle called you on January 5th, and the phone call came through with Ms. Caroline Wren—with Caroline Wren's phone number?

A Yeah—so, so to be deadly accurate—is so Caroline, or Kimberly, called me from Caroline's phone. The representation is my phone says Caroline Wren.

Q Okay.

A And I answer it. And can't remember if Caroline, you know, says, here's Kimberly, or if it just was Kimberly.

Q Fair enough. And you all didn't discuss anything, any plans for January 6th during this phone call?

A I've provided the committee to—with my best recollection of that brief phone call. It was a thank you call.

BY  

Q Do you know where they were at the time, Mr. Alexander?

A I don't recall knowing where they were at the time.

Q Have you ever spoken to Ms. Guilfoyle before that day?

A If I did, it had been in passing.

Q Did she give you any sense of what the President's mind set was going into January 6th?

A Everything that I recalled about that thank-you call, the thank-you call that she gave me, I've provided to you.

Mr.   Do any of the members have any follow-up questions for Mr. Alexander.

Mr. Kinzinger. No questions here from Kinzinger.

Mr. Schiff. No questions from Schiff.

Ms. Lofgren. None from me.

Mr.   Do any counsel have any follow-up questions?

Mr.   No.

BY  

Q So we've been going about an hour now, do you want to take a comfort break?

A Sure.

Q We will be on recess for 10 minutes.

[Recess.]