Deposition of Ali Alexander, (Dec. 9, 2021)/1:40pm

[1:40 p.m.]

BY  :

Q So if I were to ask Mr. Martin why he reached out to Oath Keepers, it's your testimony here today that he would say you didn't direct him to do so?

A What I just answered was that me and Stewart Rhodes did not come up with this list together, and I can't vet it. And I didn't talk to you know, I don't recall talking to Stewart about this stuff.

Q I'm not focusing so much on the list. I'm focusing on why Mr. Martin sent you this list. Did you direct Mr. Martin to go get Oath Keepers for security?

A This email doesn't say that.

Q I'm not asking about the email. I'm asking, if I were to ask Mr. Martin did you direct him to go to Oath Keepers for security, would he say no?

A You'd have to ask him what he recalls. I can't—

Q I'm asking what your testimony is today.

A I don't have testimony on what he'll say.

Q Did you direct him to go get Oath Keepers for your security?

A You said that Nathan Martin sent this email.

Q Yes or no, yes or no, did you direct Mr. Martin to go get—

A I don't—I don't recall.

Q You do not recall. Okay.

A Yeah, I've testified to that.

Q Thank you.

So let's look at this list. Are you aware that Kelly Meggs, Connie Meggs, Caleb Berry, Kenneth Harrelson, David Moerschel, Jeremy Brown, Graydon Young, Jason Dolan, Joe Hackett, Ben Parker, Sandra Parker, Jessica Watkins, and Donovan Crowl have all been charged by the Department of Justice for crimes committed at the Capitol on January 6th? Were you aware of that?

A I'm not aware of that.

Q So that's 13 folks on this list that was sent to you by Mr. Martin. So you're saying here today that you did not hear the Oath Keepers throughout the day on January 6th discussing any plans for the Capitol on January 6th?

A I had very little interaction with the Oath Keepers on all of January 6th 9 because, as the two were with me, I believe, the two came with me to the Ellipse, they weren't sitting with me. I was in the front row for all of the speeches.

And they didn't—I don't believe that they went with me when Alex Jones and I were walking with his security, which was why I was in his security bubble.

And I don't recognize any of the Oath Keepers in pictures that I've seen in preparing for my testimony in shots of us. And when I got to the Capitol, not only did I not see them there, they weren't at Lot 8.

Q Right. So I guess that didn't answer the question. So you don't recall hearing Oath Keepers talking about their plans for the Capitol—

A I didn't have an opportunity to hear any Oath Keepers talking about anything that, you know, that would have lasted more than from, based off my recollection, from the hotel to the Ellipse.

Q So you're providing the color without, kind of like what   said earlier, you're providing the color without answering the question.

A No, I'm answering the question.

Q Is it yes or no? Do you recall—

A I do not recall.

 . Thank you.

Do you have any follow-up,  

BY  :

Q Actually, I just—I'm a little—I'm confused. Because when I'm looking at this email, if I understood—and   is far more familiar with this, so forgive me—but Stephen Brown or Steve Brown, excuse me—was a media agency event planner that Stop the Steal hired, correct?

A I hired him.

Q You hired him. Okay.

And Nathan Martin was somebody that worked for you, correct?

A He worked with me, half volunteer. And then when I could compensate him for his travel services or that company, then I—

Mr.   He worked at your direction?

Mr.   Mostly.

Mr.  . Okay.

BY  :

Q And so I'm looking at an email from Steve Brown, somebody that you hired, to you and Nathan Martin, saying: "This is the list of personal security detail"—and if you don't know what PSD is, that's usually what it means

A Oh, okay.

Q —"we have working with us and their names/nicknames from Signal." And you are completely unaware of this, despite that it's from the person that you hired, addressed to the person that you direct.

And I'm just trying to figure out, is it your position that, despite the fact that this is who you hired and this is who you direct, you had no idea that any of this was happening and you never read this email?

A What is "any of this"?

Q The email, like the arrangement of the personal security detail, you had no idea that Nathan was getting Oath Keepers, you had no idea that he sent this to you?

I'm confused, because these are two individuals that you either hired or directed, and I just want to make sure that what you're saying is, "I've never seen this email. I had no idea that they were doing this."

A There's like three or four questions stacked in there. So let me in a narrative form try to summarize what I believe I've told this committee.

I do not recall seeing this email until today. I still believe that I probably have possession of this email and did not know that I did. And it's probably marked unread, and I gave the context of the date and the time and what I would have been doing.

The second thing I'd like to observe is I trust Stephen Brown and Nathan Martin mostly at my direction. You know, I don't know if we want to play around with language or whatever. I'm so unfamiliar with this email I didn't know what PSD means until you told me. And I appreciate that,  .

What I will say is I'm unfamiliar with this list. This is my best recollection first time seeing this list. So when   read out the list faster than I could put dots near the name of who was arrested, that's how new this information is for me.

And the question I have is, are the two that guarded me that were not with me until—were no longer with me after 10 a.m., did they get arrested?

Q And what I want to make sure is that you're not getting wrapped up. Because what we're not trying to do is trick you. We have an email from people to people. We're not trying to trick you about what the email says or doesn't say.

What we're trying to get from you sitting here today is, do you remember the facts and circumstances surrounding the three of you via this email arranging the Oath Keepers to serve as the personal security detail? And if you want to answer it in narrative form, that's fine. I'm really not trying to trick you.

Mr. Kamenar. I think he already answered that he doesn't recall this email. So I don't know what more—

 . But I'm not asking him if he recalls the email.

The Witness. Why were you referencing it?

 . Well, because sometimes that triggers people's recollection—

The Witness. It doesn't.

 . —because it was the—

The Witness. Not to me.

 . And that's fine.

Sitting here today—forget the email—do you remember any conversations with Nathan, any conversations with Stephen, about hiring the Oath Keepers to be a personal security detail on January 5th or January 6th?

The Witness. I either made the decision or authorized the decision for Oath Keepers, for two to be with me and my party, and then a gaggle.

And I do not remember. I mean, this is a big list. Okay? I don't know who came up with this amount of people. It could have been me. It could have been Stephen. It could have been Nathan. It could have been Stewart. It could have been the man on the Moon. Okay?

But let me say this. Their job, we can call them security or PSD, I've never called anyone PSD. You won't find that—

BY  

Q Can I stop you right there?

A They are perimeter people. They are there just because we can't have a rope line on the Capitol stage. We wanted to cooperate with the U.S. Capitol Police.

Q You keep saying you never used PSD. Turn to exhibit 22 for me and go to the second page, please, because on that you literally text, "Means I have 2 PSD guys." The second page on the back. You literally say it. Yet you're sitting here, testifying here today saying you've never used the term PSD.

A I don't recall.

Q So help me understand that.

A Yeah,  . I'll help you understand that.

In all of the evidence that we've reviewed today, I don't recall using PSD. This is on the back of a page that we all reviewed together in which, you know, you're saying that Stephen used PSD first and I responded back with his language.

Q That's fair.

A I'm sorry.

Q I want to go back to the email in exhibit 12 that   was just talking to you about. You said it's probably in your inbox unread.

Which brings me to the point of, how did you search for responsive documents? I'm assuming you searched   right?

A I consulted with my attorneys on providing responsive documents.

Q And I'm assuming you searched for emails of Nathan Martin since he was working at your direction on January 4th, right?

A I worked with my attorneys on providing responsive documents. And we even in a correspondence tried to provide some of the terms that we looked for and asked the committee to specify any particular people that they were drilling down on so that we could do a more expansive search.

Q And I have to assume that it would be just the most logical search term for you to go to Mr. Steve Brown, who was getting your permits for you, that you should have found an email from January 4th, correct?

A No. Incorrect. What I wouldn't find, because the subject line doesn't say "Stop the Steal" or "January 6th" or "Lot 8 event." To my knowledge, that doesn't say this in this email. Again, I'm being asked questions about something that I don't recall reading and haven't read.

Q That's fine.

A But what I'm saying is those are terms that we would have used to come up with something like this. And so I didn't grab all Stephen Brown emails if they weren't—that they didn't fit into House Resolution 503.

Q So you didn't search Stephen Brown emails after January 1st and at January 6th, like between that date range? You didn't search for those Stephen Brown emails?

A I think we looked—we tried to look for—we produced thousands of records, we produced thousands of records, represented by hundreds of pages. There's five volumes of binders here on the table. And we've—I've literally worked on this full time.

And so we've been as responsive as we can. If you said, "This is a subject line that we want you to authenticate ahead of this meeting," I would have done that.

Q That's not my responsibility. But did you not search—I mean, the subject line literally says, "6th Draft Names."

A Yes. "6th" is not a term I would have looked for by itself.

 . Could we ask that perhaps maybe we have a conversation afterwards in terms of the thoroughness of the terms, given this line of conversation, that if the 6th wasn't included in the search emails that may be something that we need to discuss?

Mr. Kamenar. Yes, be glad to.

 . Okay.

Mr. Kamenar. Also, I believe when we provided documents, Mr. Baron Coleman also said this is what we've found. It's not exhaustive. It's not everything. We'd be glad to go back and recheck to see what may be missing or what was overlooked by a consultant—

 . Yeah.

Mr. Kamenar. —that was hired to look through these search terms.

 . That's fair. And it might help actually maybe we could give you a list of key words?

 . No.

 . No, no, no, I know. But to the extent that there's any confusion. Because I think we would have thought the 6th would have been an obvious term.

Mr. McBride. Well, we believe that the 6th is an obvious term. And if we looked for it and if we don't have it, we'd be more than happy to take a second look for you.

  Thank you.

So you said you met—did you have any follow-up, by the way,  ? Sorry about that.

BY  

Q I just—one thing, because I think it's really important to understand something.

Our job is to find the facts, and sometimes that's just to take the answer from you. Okay?

When the report by this committee comes out, it will be so and so said this, so and so said this, so and so said this, right? And what I want to make sure is that we're not putting words in your mouth, that we're not mischaracterizing you. And sometimes it's hard because there's a lot of color added to the answers. So when we try to drill down, it's because we don't want there to be confusion in terms of what your position is.

And what I want to make sure, because I'm looking at the exhibit in 12, and I'm looking at the exhibit in 22, and what I see in 22 is a text conversation. And I'm sorry, my eyes are terrible, but it looks like it's between Stephen Brown and somebody named Ali Akbar, who has your picture on it, who's talking about rooms at the JW Marriott that you've admitted that you stayed at—

A Uh-huh.

Q —with individuals who are in your room block with a personal security detail, a term that you used, presuming that this is you in this text, with the layers that you've described, with an individual that you hired.

And your position is that that's not me on the text and I don't remember this email and I didn't tell Stephen Brown to send this.

I'm just—that's where I'm—that's what I'm taking away. And I want to make sure that I understand that that's what you're saying. And if I'm wrong, I want you to correct me.

A I'd like to refer you to my previous answer.

Q But here's the thing. If your previous answer wasn't clear, I have the right to ask you to clarify, which is not "asked and answered," it's a clarification. So if what I just said is wrong, I'd like you to correct me.

Mr. Kamenar. Well, excuse me. What you said, asked what was wrong, you had three or four, five things in there. So if you could go—

 . Sure.

Mr. Kamenar. —one by one.

 . After everything that Mr. Childress asked you about the JW receipts, about your personal security detail, I'd like you to answer, sitting right here, that you believe that this is not you in exhibit 22.

The Witness. I'm not saying what I believe or don't believe. I'm saying I do not recall this exchange. This exchange lines up with all these other facts.

Mr. Kamenar. All right. That's it.

BY MR.  

QGoing back to when you said you met Mr. Rhodes in November of 2020, where did you—like what was going on where you met him? Was it an event, preplanning an event? What was going on? How did you meet him?

A We were in—I was protesting in Atlanta. And, yeah, someone wanted to introduce me to Stewart Rhodes. And he volunteered to, you know, hey, wherever you're going across the country, if you'll give me a call or have your people give me a call, you know, we'll try to provide you with a veteran.

Q What event were you throwing in November when you met him? Or what was—actually, let me backtrack.

Do you not recall the date, the rally or the event you were planning in November around—what event was it then?

A I don't, I don't recall. It was either mid-November, late November, or the first days of December.

Q Okay. Was it a rally at the State Capitol in Georgia?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And what were you protesting at the State Capitol in Georgia in November?

A We were lobbying the governor to call for a special session.

Q Okay. Does November 18th sound about right, because that was the day that Georgia was supposed to complete the audit and recount? Does that sound about right, November 18th?

A That date range sounds around there.

Q Did you official—was this your rally in Atlanta at the Capitol? Was it a Stop the Steal rally?

A It was a Stop the Steal rally.

Q Did Women for America First have a role in this event?

A No. However, at one point in Georgia, and I don't know if it was in this series of events or later that—

The Witness. Is that a reporter?

 . I think it's maintenance looking to see if someone's in here.

 . Sorry about that.

 . Sorry about that. We apologize.

 . Can you please continue with what you were saying?

The Witness. I think I was saying—I'm sorry.

 . No, I'm sorry.

We apologize for the record, ma'am.

BY  :

Q Just to clarify, we were talking about whether the event on November 18th at the Capitol was with Women for America First.

A Definitely not.

Q Okay. When you were having this event, were you coordinating with the Trump campaign at this time?

A No, I don't believe so. I think going into Georgia after D.C. was a "me" decision.

Q What about did you coordinate this even with the White House at all?

A How I'm interpreting your question of coordinating is seeking someone else's permission to do something like that as a collaborative effort, and the answer is I made the decision that we would protest Georgia. I formerly lived there, I know the governor, and I wanted a special session.

Q I guess let me go back a little bit. That's a great way to get to this.

Who have you talked to that works in the White House in December or January? Who do you know in the White House?

Mr. Kamenar. Is that a question who does he know or who does he talk to?

BY  :

Q Actually, who have you talked to in the White House in December or January?

A That's pertinent to the Capitol attack?

Q Just in general.

A I would really like to stick to the pertinency of the Capitol attack and January 6th and not go through my personal life or social dealings.

Q So the reason why I'm asking is because throughout the text messages that you produced to us there's the term "White House is telling me" or "White House this." I'm trying to figure out who in the White House is telling you anything.

A I described early in the—in this testimony—and then I'm happy to go through each one of those text messages one by one and see if I recall something or try to recontextualize it contemporaneously.

But in politics, someone can either indirectly tell you something or you'll indirectly hear chatter or they'll tweet about something and put out a press release and someone won't be in the know and you're telling them that they're in the know.

What I can say is that I'm just going to volunteer this information, even though, again, I don't think it has anything to do with the Capitol attack.

I spoke with White House adviser Peter Navarro on January 5th at our rally, and to my recollection that's my first time ever talking to him.

Q Okay.

A And, you know, he was at the rally. So I think we spoke for 2 minutes, and I introduced him.

You know, I know a lot of people in politics. Some people, like, you know, take leave from the administration or they're in the administration but not the White House. But what I will say is that the people—you know, I didn't need to talk about the Ellipse and Lot 8.

The person that I talked to was Caroline Wren, and to make a duplicative effort to me would seem a waste of resources or my time. I talk to hundreds of people probably a day. I mean, I was like the busiest person in America. I know some people don't like that, but a lot of other people love it.

And another gentleman I talked to at the White House was—and we did talk about election integrity, but I don't recall talking about the 6th—Garrett Ziegler, who worked for Mr. Navarro. And I know we talked about election integrity. I don't recall talking to him about the 6th or the 5th. And I don't see how he would be in any authority to kind of do anything like that.

Q Okay. Okay. When you were doing this rally at the Capitol, did you coordinate it with any Members of Congress?

A "We," like this proverbial—

Q Yeah, we as in Stop the Steal, which you are the single leader of.

A Yeah, yeah. Recruited and attempted to recruit several Members to speak when the Lot 8 event was going to happen and—

Q I'm talking about the November rally.

A November rally?

Q Yeah, the November rally.

A Can you establish a nexus between that and the Capitol attack?

Q Well, I know you've probably read this, right? But our House Resolution memo allows us to also investigate the influencing factors that fomented the attack on the Capitol on January 6th.

And so you've already talked about how Oath Keepers provided you security on November 6th. When asked how you first met Mr. Stewart Rhodes, you said you met him at a rally in November. So, of course, I'm just trying to explore this rally in November that led to you talking to Mr. Rhodes for the January 6th event.

A It's not clear to me the nexus between Members of Congress and my First Amendment right to seek redress from them and the Capitol attack or the resolution. And the resolution's pretty wide.

Q Are you refusing to answer the question? Are you refusing to answer the question?

A I'm not refusing. I'm asking for you guys to establish—

 . Mr. Alexander, we've explained House Resolution 503. And if you need to step out and talk with your lawyers to understand the context of how to make an objection, prior rallies at capitols is absolutely within the purview of investigating a subsequent Capitol attack on January 6th.

If we need to step out for you to have that conversation, we will. Our position is it's relevant. If yours is that it's not relevant—

The Witness. That helps.

 . —you can just object.

The Witness. That helps. I didn't have—I didn't have a Capitol rally in November.

 . You just said November 18th you had a rally—you had a rally—

The Witness. In Washington, D.C., at Freedom Plaza, not the Capitol.

 . Not in Atlanta?

 . Post-election rallies at State capitols are within the purview of our investigation.

Mr. Kamenar. Okay. I think we need some clarification. What rally? What date?

 . November 18th rally in Atlanta at the State Capitol that he just said Stop the Steal through.

The Witness. You guys have gone back and forth between two different events right now.

 . And you know what? Defer to  , like, because he's saying November—

The Witness. I'm just very confused.

 . What I was saying is pre-January 6th rallies were relevant to the January 6th rally.   is asking you about November 18th, 2020, in Atlanta. Is that correct?

 . That's exactly right.

 . On November 18th—

The Witness. Did I talk to any Members of Congress about Atlanta November 18th?

BY  :

Q About coordinating that rally with Members of Congress.

A At the Atlanta State Capitol, I don't believe so.

Q Thank you.

A That helped. That helped. I really heard, like, two or three difference questions.

Q Thank you. No, that's fine. I'm sorry if we were unclear.

 . And we will try not to do that. Apologies. That was unintentional.

BY  :

Q It's reported that at this event on November 18th that you said, "Who's going to be ready to storm the capitol with us in a couple minutes?" Do you recall making that statement?

A I don't recall making that statement.

Q Do you recall going in the State Capitol on November 18th in Georgia?

A I recall being invited into the State Capitol and coordinating with police and making sure that we weren't too loud as not to interrupt the work.

Q Who invited you in?

A Representative Vernon Jones, who was a Democrat at the time.

Q Yeah. Did any other rally attendees go in with you?

A A bunch.

Q And what happened when you went inside?

A We worked with security to make sure that everyone went in peacefully. There was a gentleman there who wanted to stage a sit-in. And I said, "No, under no circumstances are we going to participate in Antifa tactics," I think I said, or something like that.

It was a viral video, because I then got attacked by White supremacists because I called him a hillbilly. And, you know, I probably should have been more artful in my language. But I got attacked for weeks by White nationalists and White supremacists for calling him a hillbilly.

But, anyway, I think we had a photo op. We talked to the media. I think the whole—well, I don't know how long the security process lasted. But being on the capitol steps with the cooperation of Georgia State Police and Representative Vernon Jones, I think that, I mean, it lasted like 10 or 15 minutes. And then we single-filed out.

Q Did you also in this time period—I want to say it's November 21st—did you go to the governor's mansion in Georgia?

A I know that I went outside the governor's mansion across the street, and we held a protest there. I don't know what the date was.

Q Okay.

A It's usually at night.

Q And did you talk to Mr.—is this when you talked to Mr. Stewart Rhodes about for the first time around this time?

A Yes. I think we spoke for the first time—man, actually I don't know if it was this or a subsequent trip to Atlanta. Atlanta, you know, we were frequently in Atlanta.

Q Can you go to page 1 of exhibit 26 from your production? It looks like you say to Mr. Stewart Rhodes in this chat—and the date, to be clear for the record, is November 21st, 2020—"It's Ali Alexander. Can we meet after the governor mansion op?"

He says, "You bet, brother. Getting my men fed, and then we'll all be there at the mansion. What's your ETA?"

I'm trying to understand, what was the purpose of having the Oath Keepers go to the governor's mansion with you?

A So I said, "Can we meet up after the governor's mansion?" I didn't invite them to the governor's mansion. He then later says in this that he's going to show up.

We had said earlier that day at the State Capitol, we said let's go protest at night at the governor's—outside the governor's mansion, peacefully and legally. And so everyone who heard my voice would have heard that. That means I don't think I had met Stewart Rhodes even at this point.

QOkay. So if I were to ask Mr. Steward Rhodes if you invited him to the governor's mansion on November 21st, it's your testimony here today that he would say no?

A My testimony is I made a universal public call for people to come to the mansion. I did not make specific calls that I recall.

Q Okay. So I want to think big picture here for a second. And you've mentioned that you—Stop the Steal, I say you, but I mean Stop the Steal had thrown rallies at State capitols after the election, leading up to January 6th. Was there a certain reason why you were having rallies at State capitols?

A Yes. That's where the lawmakers meet. And we sought to seek a redress from our government, consistent with Black Lives Matter or Second Amendment supporters or whatever.

This happened a lot in the lockdown era. So this is just a ritual. You know, it's probably been, you know, 60, 70 years Americans have been meeting at State capitols and doing Capitol rotunda type protests.

And, you know, we only, fortunately, thank God, participated in peaceful and legal, you know, redresses of our government. And we wanted State legislatures, particularly, to call for special sessions. So that's why we were looking for action from the people's houses.

Q Got it. And so you said, speaking, like, lockdown. I'm assuming that's COVID lockdown.

A Yes, sir.

Q Is one of those State capitol protests you're talking about like the one on August 25th where protestors pushed their way past police forces in the Idaho statehouse? Are you familiar with that?

A I'm not at all familiar. This is first time I'm hearing of that.

Q And you aren't familiar with the December 21st protest in the Oregon State Capitol during a special session where protestors went inside the capitol?

A I'm very familiar with that one because I publicly denounced it. I publicly denounced it on Twitter. It was widely reported. This committee should, you know, be aware of that. I think we've even provided documentation to this sort or a statement to this sort. And if not, we can provide a list of that.

But I was totally opposed to what happened in Oregon. I remember watching that on Twitter. Came out very early. And I said that those people are not strategic. They're not thinking about the safety of people. And it was just—it was inappropriate. It wasn't a Stop the Steal event. So—

Q Okay.

A It wasn't a Stop the Steal event. I want to go on the record with that.

Q And I'm going to defer to   after I ask just the first question. But for, like, this November rally at the State Capitol, how did you raise the funds to throw this rally? How does Stop the Steal do it?

A I gave general tweets where I was, like, you know, hey, if we needed money to, like, mainly flights and hotels and food, water, security, if we were paying for them, signs, rally signs.

But there was no staging. You know, we just worked with the police. So we didn't even need a permit there. Our permitting activities were really focused for Washington, D.C., because we took things seriously up here.

BY  :

Q Sorry. Let me clarify and ask it at a more granular level.

What was the actual mechanism that you used to fundraise? So, like, I think you said you did tweets. There was like a link to a donation page? Like, what was the actual fundraising mechanism?

A Oh, yes, it was usually tweets to—the fundraising platform we were using was Donorbox.

Q Okay. Was that all you were using at the time in November, or were you using any cryptocurrency then?

A Okay. So Stop the Steal starts on November 4th. And at that point I'm basically alone. There's no Stop the Steal organization. There's me. And I said, "Hey, if you guys want to send me personal donations, I will redistribute this and I'll buy people's flights."

And then when we formed Stop the Steal and we provided that type of documentation and finally got to move over to Donorbox, that made me feel easier, because then we were doing something with some organizations, some rhythm. And that's consistent with, you know, whatever.

So, however, I collected personal donations for that. I think it was a week. It could have been two.

Q Actually maybe we could do this a different way because I really -- I don't want to confuse this. It would help me.

Could you do it in a chronological order? Because it sounds like you were doing it. When you started Stop the Steal, it changed. Like, could you tell me at this—before I was fundraising "X" way and then Stop the Steal happened. Because I got what you were saying, but there was a lot in there.

A Okay.

Q And it would be easier if you could just timewise how were you fundraising before and then at what—like, how did it change, at what point? That would be easier for me to keep track of.

A At brunch on November 4th, I decided that I was going to help an election integrity movement and that I would borrow from my 2018 protest in Florida, in Broward County.

And so when I was like a one-man team soliciting allies, I encouraged my existing customers, clients, and donors to donate for me to do this type of stuff. And then I offered activists to pay for their flights and I said we'll figure it out as we go.

I don't know how many weeks it lasted that we kind of had to do that, and I wasn't able to phase myself out. I was on a phone call with Scott Presler and Alexander Bruesewitz where I said, "I could help you guys set this up for 2 weeks, and then I'm going to hand it over to you guys. I don't want anything to do with this, you know, whatever."

And I couldn't get out. So what we had to do instead was form an LLC so that we could get a Donorbox and fundraise that way through, until we got deplatformed shortly after the 7th.

Q And so help me understand. Prior to Donorbox, when you were saying that it was you or that you were trying, what was the fundraising mechanism before Donorbox?

A I had links of it was, like, PayPal or other sites, and that was all, my personal site. And I know there's a screenshot of that in here that is my personal site.

Q Okay. All right. So prior to it was the personal stuff. And then as soon as you get Stop the Steal set up, the LLC is able to establish Donorbox. You use Donorbox until you're deplatformed. And then after deplatforming, what are you using after deplatforming?

A Well, that's after the 6th. I mean, that has nothing to do with the Capitol attack. But we, you know, we went—we got a credit card processing company to bill, like, the back-end stuff. I mean, I'm a techie, but this is, like, above my pay grade.

Q And just so you know, because I don't want you to think we're asking irrelevant questions, the fact that you may have been deplatformed because of your participation in January 6th is actually relevant because how payment processors responded to these events is part of the narrative.

That's not necessarily about you. You just got deplatformed. So that's—it's just a factual—it's not a comment. It's not a, you know, judgment. It's just the fact that you got deplatformed, possibly because of your role in January 6th, maybe not.

I'm just curious, after you were deplatformed, were you able to raise money?

A Yeah. And I did make the comment to make commentary about deplatforming. I made the comment to say that donations raised after the 6th couldn't have possibly contributed to the Capitol attack.

Q Yeah. No, but—

Mr. Kamenar. Just answer the question.

BY  :

Q Yeah, it would just be helpful if you could answer the question. Were you able to raise money after you were deplatformed?

A Yes.

Q And, if so, how?

A Yes. Like I said, the technical details are above my pay grade. We saw the credit card processor, and they built something custom. And that's on the stopthestealdot—that was on the stopthesteal or is on the stopthesteal.us website.

Q Okay. Great. So Stop the Steal through the website, you use a credit card processor. And you're able to directly take donations through that credit card processor through your website. That's perfect. I totally understand that. Appreciate it.

BY  :

Q Mr. Alexander, when did you start planning the January 6th events? Approximately when?

A I probably actually should have nailed down that date. The date I keep using is I think December 16th.

Q Okay.

A But I do know I made a public tweet about it.

Q Yep. Yep.

A And at first people are just going to go to State capitols.

Q Okay. So around December 16th, December 17th, it's fair to say you started thinking about the 6th as the next event in D.C.?

A I know I made the announcement prior to President Trump.

Q Okay. And President Trump made his announcement on Twitter on December 19th. Does that sound about right?

A That sounds right.

Q That was like the same day you were having—or I don't know if you were having or participating in the Stop the Coup rally in Arizona?

A I—

Q Do you recall a Stop the Coup event in Arizona?

A We—well, we had a—there's a local—

Q Uh-huh.

A —Arizona activist who wanted to rebrand the local "Stop the Steal" Stop the Coup. As far as I'm concerned, I was there, Stop the Steal. There were some signs that said Stop the Coup as well.

And it's kind of clever. It's kind of clever branding. But I just didn't think it was as catchy.

 . I'm sorry. Before you go on, are you going past the security questions? Because there was one I wanted to cover real quick.

 . You can just ask it.

 . Are you familiar with the First Amendment Praetorian group?

Are you getting there?

 . I'm getting there.

 . I'm so sorry.

See, this was my fault. I need to trust  , and that is my fault.

BY  :

Q While you were planning this Stop the Steal event in Arizona, I believe in your production we saw text messages with Mr. Ed Martin.

Who is Ed Martin?

A Ed Martin is the—I think he's a former, like, State house member, State senator. I think he ran for Congress or RNC chair. I forget. But he runs a group called the Eagle Forum.

A Okay. And was he involved with helping you plan January 6th events?

A Yeah, he was involved with, you know, a lot of things.

A Can you just—was he involved with helping you book January 6th?

A Well, he was kind of like a mentor. I could bounce ideas off him. He's been in politics longer than me and he knows some Members that I don't know and—like Senator Josh Hawley. And I don't have a personal relationship with him.

So, yeah, he was a guy I got to—a sound board and then sometimes, you know, we prayed together every morning. And he runs a, you know, he runs the Eagle Forum, Phyllis Schlafly's old group.

A I want to direct you back to exhibit 26 and page 85. The reason why I'm asking about Mr. Ed Martin, on this page—and I'll just start reading it as you're flipping there. It's page 85. It's before the December 19th rally, on about December 16th. Mr. Martin asks for Congressman Brooks' cell phone.

Do you know—how do you know Congressman Brooks?

A What time is this? Oh, here it is. I got it.

Mr. Kamenar. Where is it?

The Witness. 1451.

I know a lot of people in Alabama. I was there in 2010. I think Brooks was elected in 2010. And so I just have a huge grassroots network in Alabama and so—yeah.

 . So did you ever personally talk to Congressman Brooks yourself?

The Witness. I think I was sending texts to his office number. And I definitely spoke to his staff. And, you know, we were talking about a Dear—what in politics you guys know, but what's called a Dear Colleague Letter. Yeah.

 . Okay.

 . I'm actually not in politics. What is a Dear Colleague Letter?

The Witness. A Dear Colleague Letter is when a Member of Congress is lobbying for legislation or a legislative fix or action by the executive or judicial branch, and they write to their colleagues. And they say, "Dear Colleague, I want you to support this. These are the good reasons why."

And it was widely reported that Representative Brooks started a Dear Colleague Letter around election integrity. And when we caught wind of that, I knew that, like, we need to talk to him team, because we can be helpful in lobbying Members of Congress because a lot of Americans want to participate in the legislative process.

 . Thank you.

BY  :

Q Did you work with Congressman Brooks' staff or Congressman Brooks himself in planning January 6th?

A In planning January 6th?

Q Uh-huh.

A The word "planning" to me as an event planner, you know, means like logistics or fundraising and stuff like that.

Q I'll rephrase it then. In the leadup to January 6th, did you speak to Congressman Brooks' staff or Congressman Brooks himself?

A I believe I spoke to him. I don't think we talked about—well, we had to obviously ask his staff if he was available to speak. And we talked, you know, we talked about election integrity. Yeah.

Q But when you say "we," as it you?

A It was me. They had, I think, two staffers on their end on a call.

Q Who were the staffers?

A I do not recall. If there's a text message that refreshes it, that would be better.

Q So it was a phone call. It wasn't a text message, you talked to the staffers?

A The staffers, I believe—I believe it was a phone call. I know that we had a phone call. If I exchanged text messages with the staff, I don't readily recall that.

But we definitely had a conference call, me, Ed, at least two of their staff members. And they were telling us about their efforts. And we were like, oh, we can probably be helpful in tweeting this, or, oh, we can be helpful in giving out phone numbers, you know, to Members of Congress' offices so that people know that they need to call their Member of Congress.

Q When was this call approximately?

A I don't recall. It would have been around when he announced the Dear Colleague Letter is my guess.

Q So was this end of December?

A It could have been middle of December. It could have been early—actually—actually, you know, I don't know when the Dear Colleague Letter came out. It's kind of a blur. It's 12 months ago.

Q Okay. But you spoke to, it sounds like, Congressman Brooks after the 2020 election, general election?

A Speaking to? I don't know that we "spoke" spoke. I know that I sent him messages that were getting—that I thought were getting delivered that weren't getting delivered. And then I believe I got a message to him. And he sent me some boilerplate stuff or something, or a staff member.

But I do know that the substantive part of my relationship—not relationship—my interaction with the Brooks office was the call where they got to describe their actions to me and Ed and we got to say, hey, we can tweet about this.

Q And when you said, "He sent me some stuff," was this over email?

A No, I don't think so, no.

Q So how would you send somebody something if it's not over email or mail? Just help me understand, what was sent to you, how was it sent to you?

A I mean, it was probably a text message because it wasn't resolving. And it wasn't about January 6th. It was about election integrity. And, you know, and again, to my best recollection, they are telling us what they are doing.

And they were doing it independent of me. They were doing it independent of the White House. They were doing what they thought was right.

There were several different Members of Congress on different tracks. I thought that was silly. What I wanted to know, I wanted to be a clearinghouse for some of this information and concentrate the effort in a productive, legislative, legal, peaceful way.

Q How did you know they were doing it independent of the White House?

A Because on the call they were in over their heads. They were, you know, saying—I asked—I think I asked, "How many Members?" Again, like, this makes me feel icky because, like, my First Amendment or whatever.

But they—they—I asked them, I think, you know, how many Members you guys have or something? We're trying to probe the political viability of the issue. And it was a ridiculous answer or something like that. And I was like, "Are you guys working with White House Legislative Affairs? Are you working with anybody who's, like, helping y'all with whip counting?" It was something about whip counting.

And whip counting is, you know, counting the expected votes for a piece of legislation.

 . No, no, I watched "House of Cards." I know that one. But I appreciate it.

BY  :

Q What was the issue again? What was the issue that you all were discussing?

A I know it was something—it was election integrity. And it was a Dear Colleague Letter. So it will be referenced there. But I don't recall what—everyone had their own bright idea, and everyone wanted to be a star. Jody Hice wanted to be a star. Ted Cruz wanted to be a star. Mo Brooks wanted to be a star. And then there were team players like, you know, Paul Gosar, who was, like, "Okay, I'll sign onto anything election integrity-wise."

Q I don't recall seeing any text messages in your production with anyone from Congressman Brooks' staff. You just said it was probably over text message.

A I'll have to get with counsel and see what—see if there's something responsive there.

Q Again, were you searching for various Congressmen's names when looking for responsive documents responsive to the subpoena?

A I consulted counsel when trying to find responsive documents and then hired a consultant ultimately when it was in over my head, as you guys know. I had to submit—well, I've submitted three or four different times.

But there was such a dramatic difference between our first production and our second production, because the first production was me trying to understand the House resolution and me trying to provide documents responsive to that.

Mr. Kamenar. As we said earlier, this is not a definitive, exhaustive list. We'll be glad to go back and re-check. So I appreciate your pointing these out, and we'll go back to the consultant or whatever to see.

 . Understood. Thank you, Mr. Kamenar.

BY  :

Q I'm just pointing out various information that would be responsive to the subpoena that should be searched for in your documents, Mr. Alexander.

So at this rally in Arizona, you mentioned marching thousands of patriots going to D.C. for certification on January 6th. What was your plan for January 6th as of that protest on December 19th?

A I do not recall. I don't have a copy of that speech. All speeches are impromptu. I think you told me the date is December 21st?

Q No. Actually I never mentioned December 21st, but that's a great segue.

December 21st, do you recall a meeting between congressional Members and President Trump in the Oval Office?

A I wasn't in the Oval Office. So I wouldn't recall.

Q Did you call in to the meeting between President Trump and congressional Members on December 21st?

A I do not recall calling in to the Oval Office.

Q Were you aware of a meeting between President Trump and congressional Members on December 21st?

A I do not—that's an interesting question. I don't recall a specific meeting with Members of Congress and the President. I do know that the President hosts Members of Congress within his own party regularly.

Q So it's your testimony here today you did not know about a meeting between President Trump and congressional Members on December 21st of 2020?

A I do not readily recall any specific meeting between Members of Congress and the President in the Oval Office. Did not call in to a conference call, to my knowledge.

And there were times when, you know, a Member of Congress, like Representative Gosar, if he would talk, you know, to the President or met with the President, might relay some good news back to me.

Q Got it.

A But I don't know when that was.

Q How would that good news get relayed back to you?

A I was in Arizona a lot in person.

Q I asked, how would it be relayed to you? Was it in person? Was it via text? Was it a phone call? Was it email?

A I don't recall, but it would usually probably be me in person in Arizona -- I spent some time there—or if I would talk to his chief of staff on the phone.

Q Got it. Going—can you flip to exhibit 30, please?

I'm just curious. What is your tweet, "Hoping this call changed the world?" What is "this call"?

A No idea. I don't have access to Twitter. If I saw some tweets before or after it, I might be able to assign some context.

Q So your testimony here today is, looking at this tweet of you saying, "Hoping this call changed the world," with the screenshot of a phone number of  , which appears to be a conference line, it's your testimony here today that you do not know what this refers to?

A I probably held well over 200 conference calls or participated in them. So I would definitely not know what this one was. But if I tweeted about it, it was a big deal.

BY  :

Q I guess that's where I'm a little confused. I don't—and I don't profess to remember all of your tweets. But I don't think you tweeted every time that you had a call. And usually when somebody tweets, "Hoping this call changed the world"—and don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you didn't think you were changing the world every day. But this seems like a big one, "Hoping this call changed the world." And you screenshotted the number of the call.

Take a minute and think. Can you remember what this call was?

A This call happened almost 12 months ago, and I honestly do not recall. I agree with you on it must have been significant for me to tweet it out. I am prone to hyperbole, exaggeration, and victory laps.

Q Okay.

A And colorful language.

Q We appreciate that.

A And I think you should hunt down this number and then you guys tell me who I was on the phone with. That would be great.

 . Actually so, Mr. Kamenar, I'm cognizant of the time. We've been going for about an hour, a little over an hour and a half. Do you want to take a recess now?

Mr. Kamenar. Yeah. Let's take a recess.

 . Let's take a recess, and then we'll come back. How about let's just do 5 minutes so we can try to get this over.

Mr. Kamenar. We want to get this over as soon as possible.

 . So let's just do like 5 minutes.

[Recess.]

 . All right. We're going to go back on the record at 2:33 p.m.

BY  :