someone knowledgeable about Ukraine, this arrangement is not evidence of an unsanctioned and nefarious "shadow" foreign policy apparatus.
On May 23, the U.S. delegation to President Zelensky's inauguration briefed President Trump about their impressions of President Zelensky. Ambassador Sondland testified that the President relayed concerns about Ukrainian corruption, saying "Ukraine is a problem," "tried to take me down," and "talk to Rudy."[1] During his transcribed interview, Ambassador Volker elaborated:
Q. And can you describe the discussion—
A. Yes.
Q. —that occurred?
A Yes. The President started the meeting and started with kind of a negative assessment of the Ukraine. As I've said earlier –
Q. Yep.
A. —it's a terrible place, all corrupt, terrible people, just dumping on Ukraine.
Q. And they were out to get me in 2016.
A. And they were out to get—and they tried to take me down.
Q. In 2016?
A. Yes. And each of us took turns from this delegation giving our point of view, which was that this is a new crowd, it's a new President, he is committed to doing the right things. I believe I said, he agrees with you. That's why he got elected. It is a terrible place, and he campaigned on cleaning it up, and that's why the Ukrainian people supported him.
So, you know, we strongly encouraged him to engage with this new President because he's committed to fighting all of those things that President Trump was complaining about.
Q. And how did the President react?
A. He just didn't believe it. He was skeptical. And he also said, that's not what I hear. I hear, you know, he's got some terrible people
- ↑ Sondland deposition, supra note 51, at 61-62, 75.
71
