User talk:Beleg Tâl

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Dab redirects

I'd seen a lot of redirects in disambiguation pages, but up to now I assumed they were created by some sort of (semi-)automatic system. I just realized that you do them manually. What's the point? — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 14:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

It's not really necessary, but I do it to maintain the distinction between a work (which will be a versions page or redirect), and an edition (which would be the scan-backed text). The redirect essentially holds the space for the future versions page when other versions are added, and makes for less work in the future (and makes it easier to clean up if they forget to create the versions page). It also makes it easier (for me) when I'm dealing with integrations between enWS and Wikidata, where the work and edition remain separate items even if the work page on enWS is only a redirect.

Anyway if you don't feel like doing this, it doesn't matter too much, I just find it marginally improves the organization of information on this website. —Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 16:04, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense. It is for the same reason that sometimes redirects are created to a subpage of a work, though they not used in the TOC? (first example coming across my mind is Snowflakes, that I've since overwritten for a disambiguation page) — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 16:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. When I am working on anthologies and collections, I always create redirects (or versions pages) from the title of the work, to the edition of the work published within that anthology or collection. Again, it's not really necessary, but it keeps things cleaner and makes it a lot easier when dealing with integration with Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects.—See, for example, User:Beleg Tâl/Sandbox/Flint and Feather —Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 17:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

For an example of why I do this, have a look at Author:Charles Lutwidge Dodgson#Individual poems. We have multiple versions of most of his poems, but the majority of them do not have a versions page (yet), and most of those with a blue link redirect to only one of the versions that we have. I will be working on cleaning this up, but my personal preference is to handle this stuff as I go. —Beleg Âlt ^BT (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Acrostic disambiguation page

Hi, I saw you'd added some items to this recently. Contrary to the title at the head of the page, most of the works listed are not called 'Acrostic', they are an acrostic. Those that are, such as the Keats and Poe poems, and the encyclopaedia articles, should be here but most of the others should simply be categorised as 'Acrostics' (category doesn't exist at the moment). Chrisguise (talk) 18:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

On the contrary - the only works I added to that page that are not titled "Acrostic" are Acrostic - Madrigal and Acrostic - The Martyr, which in my opinion are close enough. The others are, in fact titled "Acrostic". There are other acrostics by Carroll that are not titled "Acrostic", which I did not add to that page. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 00:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Cruikshank images

I noticed that you were futzing with Ingoldsby. Those images (mostly) were first published in a magazine and then into a book and then into more books. If you do not mind using the same images but from a different publication commons:Category:The Ingoldsby legends (1848, Scribner and Welford) (some scrolling is necessary) are available! (not sure about the spelling of Cruikshank)--RaboKarbakian (talk) 19:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Ballad and folk song categorization

I don't entirely understand the system, and I'm hoping you can help me. I believe that ballads must have lyrics and folk songs don't have to; is this correct? Are all folk songs with lyrics ballads? traditional ballads? Are all traditional ballads folk songs? Should we have a category for ballad melodies which don't necessarily have lyrics and aren't folk songs, like many of the tunes in The Dancing Master? (Unless all of those tunes are folk songs; I don't know.) —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:40, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I think that ballads are a type of folk song. I'm no expert and usually I'll just use the terminology of whatever I'm dealing with (e.g. the songs in The English and Scottish Popular Ballads are ballads because that's what the book is called). I'm not really sure what's going on with The Dancing Master, but it looks like most of them are melodies associated with folk songs, and some of those folk songs are probably considered ballads, I guess? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 04:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I found this definition of a ballad on Wikidata, which I quite like: (d:Q182659) "short narrative poem which is written to be sung and has a simple but dramatic theme" —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:45, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Another thought, with regard to The Dancing Master—it is my personal habit, and I think it is a good habit, to separate versions of a work's text and versions of a work's tune on versions page where they are published separately. For example, see Adeste Fideles#As a hymn tune. It looks like this might come up a lot with The Dancing Master and I think it would be quite confusing if textless melodies and melodyless texts were all thrown into the same list together. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

That is a good point, and I will start working on that for Lay by your pleading and Greensleeves when I have time. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 23:32, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Not all ballads are folk songs; a ballad is essentially a story in song. Folk ballads are folk songs that are ballads, but there are also rock ballads in modern rock music, and some ballads have been written in other musical genres. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:41, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Lost Face (London collection)

Please repair the book. You broke the table of contents. This may be true for other works you've moved as well. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Also, please do not move audio without first checking that all editions are identical. In this case, there was significant revision following the initial publication, so the audio will not apply to all editions. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:31, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The audio is from Short Story Collection Vol. 003, not Lost Face (1910), so idk why you think it must be associated with that edition specifically —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The audio differs significantly from the serialized publication. I have checked the first collection publication. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:34, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

ok, whatever, do as you like —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:35, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The "Short Story Collection 003" was not a physical publication; it is a collection assembles by LibriVox from various sources. If we restrict the audio from Short Story Collection 003 to association only with that specific release, then there will be no text present, only audio. We have no mechanisms nor policies yet for hosting audio-only publications. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:42, 26 June 2024 (UTC)