User talk:Packer1028

Faust

You are welcome to start a new translation in a different location, but the current text is linked from the source file by a different translator. Replacing the text we have (at that location) will mix two different translations. It would be better to start a new copy in a new location. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps at Faust (Goethe, Kaufmann). --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Apologies for the error. New to wikisource. Saw that Faust was mostly empty, and thought I'd help. I'll move to a new page.

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, Packer1028, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

You may be interested in participating in

• Proofread of the Month
• Monthly Challenge
• Requested texts

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! Outlier59 (talk) 17:14, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Index:Report on Manufactures (Hamilton).djvu

Hi, Packer! I looked at a few pages you've recently proofread, and it looks like you're making nice progress! I validated Page:Report on Manufactures (Hamilton).djvu/11. You can check the edit history diff to see what I changed. The small-cap (sc) section heading can be hard to spot until you get used to watching for that. As far as removing unnecessary invisible blanks, if you have "Clean up OCR" in your edit tools (left sidebar), it will remove these automatically. Nice tool! If you haven't noticed the "Show Preview" and "Show Changes" buttons on the bottom of your edit screen, they're very useful. You can see how the text will look, and what you're changing, before you save it. Before you go further on this project, you might want to look at the page heading to see if it looks like all caps (normal size) or small-caps. I didn't change the page heading on Page 11, but it looks like small-caps to me. Billinghurst has validated some of your pages. Don't hesitate to ask questions! Another great way to learn how to do things here is to browse through the "Validated" category. Use search term "Category:Validated". They're not all perfect, but if you click the edit tab on a page, you can see how they're formatted (then back out of editing). Good luck and happy editing! Outlier59 (talk) 01:37, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

@Outlier59 Thank you! I'm new to this edit-specific wikisource stuff, and I'd always love to learn more. I'll look into the small caps stuff, but is there any place where formatting information like that can be found. I want to learn it, but it's hard to find. Thank you Packer1028 (talk) 02:11, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

ALL this "wikisource stuff" is incredibly confusing -- at least, in my experience. I came here to proofread. My technical knowledge is spotty at best. I started by working on a few books as well as I could. But the technical complexities and often incomprehensible discussions I read made me less interested in participating here. That said, I happen to like proofreading texts for the general public. :) So I'm still doing it, for now. I'm still a "newbie" here in Wikisource, learning a bit as I go along. So I'm a bit like an older sibling trying to help a you as a younger sibling understand how to write cursive script. Am I the "best" teacher? Probably not...

Try Billinghurst. --Outlier59 (talk) 00:44, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Apologies if it seems confusing, it is just the initial learning phase and we have no expectation that you know it, nor that you pick it up quickly. In short don't sweat the peculiarities/particularities, if you concentrate on correcting the text and updating page status, that is magic.

Some of our style is due to our need to outfox mediawiki, sometimes due to other matters that we have perfected over time. We patrol all new edits to align with style, so feel free continue as you are, and to note where we do some mods. All is well, enjoy your editing! :-) — billinghurst sDrewth 12:15, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I finished the initial transcription proofread of the document, but Hamilton's Report on Manufactures doesn't end at page 60. What should I do? Packer1028 (talk) 02:27, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Check out Index talk:Report on Manufactures (Hamilton).djvu. Apparently he's asking user:Spangineer for information about this. -- Outlier59 (talk) 00:54, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

The last two pages are there now – sorry for the trouble! Spangineer (háblame) 20:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Template:nop

To your question, it means no operation and we use it as a placeholder at the end of a Page: ns page where the paragraph terminates at the end of the page. The wiki software will swallow a terminating carriage return, and this stops it from happening, and thus it allows the new paragraph on the new page to be a new paragraph, rather than run on. There is explanation at the template, and mentions at

• Help:Templates
• Help:Page breaks
• Help:Beginner's guide to typography
• Help:Formatting conventions

Hope that helps. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:33, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Style manual and chapter numbering

Hi. I am guessing that you have seen that I have done some page edits and moves on Shepherds of the Wild and its subpages. In our style we say that we are using a consistent approach to chapters by using arabic numerals and not retain roman numerals for title pages, though we allow the presentation layer of the header to be roman if the contributor so chooses. I have also tidied the headers to remove the override_author usage as we can just utilise the author's name directly, and we would not use the year parameter on subpages, it is sufficient to do that on the top page of the work. Ping me or ask questions at WS:S as required. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:54, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and on the title page we would not transclude the pages directly, we purposely use the <pages> syntax as there is a range of actions and magic that happens in the background with its use. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:00, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

@billinghurst: I actually hadn't yet seen your changes, so I appreciate the ping. I was going off of the Emily of New Moon example when creating the pages for Shepherds of the Wild, so that was why I had imported the pages & A Brief Bible History's example is why I used the author-override parameter. I appreciate your willingness to help & to let me know of the relevant policies; still learning some of the basics. Will use your SOTW changes, & notes here, as reference for future projects. Packer1028 (talk) 18:13, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi. All good, I like to work with and train people and these are not meant to be criticism. Producing a book is not an easy thing, and explaining all the twists and turns and trying to keep it simple has similar issues. The override_author was used as that was the only means that we had for wikilinking multiple authors. The chapters in that ref'd work are display only, the wikilink page titles are arabic numerals if you dig a little deeper. Never be afraid to use WS:S or the other help page, we know that it is quirky and there is a great supportive crew here willing to guide and answer questions, we know it requires team work. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:44, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Longdash and hws/hwe

Hi Packer,

Thanks for validating The Great Gatsby (1925). Much appreciated!

Two notes though… {{hws}} and {{hwe}} are no longer needed (and hence are not recommended) for simple cases like a word split over two consecutive pages. The Proofread Page extension notices that the first page ends with a hyphen and joins them in the expected way automatically. The templates are retained because there are some edge cases—the most prominent being when words are split across pages inside a footnote (<ref> tags)—where the automatic joining doesn't work. I took the liberty of changing these back.

And the choice of a simple em-dash for terminal lines was deliberate, which means all previous pages uses em-dashes rather than {{longdash}}. Not that I would necessarily argue em-dashes are the preferable approach (it was a choice, but some of those later pages really benefit from the longdash), but within a single work we should use one or the other consistently. Going back over the 100+ preceding pages and switching to {{longdash}} is a bit of a chore, but replacing {{longdash}} with an em-dash can be done automatically (by a bot), so I am inclined towards the latter. But if you feel strongly about the issue then I certainly wouldn't object if you wanted to take on the manual job. Xover (talk) 19:41, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@Xover

Thanks for the clarification. I was not aware that the hws/e parameters were no longer needed for word splits, so I will acquaint myself with that new practice. Regarding the longdash, I was employing it for consistency with the previous chapters, since I assumed that was the established standard for the previous 116 pages and I felt it best to keep things consistent. Have never worked with a bot before, either, but I'm completely fine if you would like to set the bot on the task.

Would you mind explaining what the {{peh}} template is and how it differs from leaving things as they are? Thanks Packer1028 (talk) 23:54, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

{{peh}} is "page-end hyphen". It's sort of the opposite of {{hws}}/{{hwe}}: it's for when you want to join a word across pages with a hyphen. With the change that makes {{hws}}/{{hwe}} mostly obsolete Proofread Page detects that a page ends in a hyphen and joins it with the next by removing the hyphen and not inserting a space character. So if a page ends on a hyphen you want to preserve, such as the hyphen in "queen-mother", you would end up with "queenmother" on transclusion. {{peh}} prevents this by "tricking" Proofread Page: in the Page: namespace it outputs a single hyphen so the word looks correct, but in any other namespace (i.e. when transcluded) it outputs two hyphens. Proofread Page detects and removes the last of them and joins it with the next page without adding a space, leaving the first hyphen in place (i.e. "queen{{peh}}mother" → "queen--mother" → "queen-mother"). Xover (talk) 04:56, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Unlisted sub-subpages

I see on Index:Representative American plays.pdf that you've broken the Play chapters into subdivisions, but that these subdivisions are listed only on subpages, and not on the main page. When you do that, it means that anyone grabbing a download of the work will not get any of those sub-subpages as part of the download.

All subpages of the work need to be listed and linked on the primary page under the Contents, or the Download process will not work. For the "American plays", this either means the headache of creating an entirely separate second table of contents, or having the "play" pages include the prologue, cast, and intro on the same subpage as the play. The latter would be much easier to do. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:33, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. When I download the entire file, everything downloads with it, including all of the subpages and sub-TOCs. Then, when I download an individual play from its subpage, it downloads only that play, including a working TOC and all subpages. My tone here may seem argumentative, but that's not how I mean it to sound. I'm genuinely confused, and not sure that I understand what else the problem could be if it isn't what I've outlined above. Regardless, not trying to create a headache for anyone, and my apologies if I have.

Thanks,
Packer1028 (talk) 10:27, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

What format of download are you choosing? We've found in the past that ePUB doesn't pull a complete download, from the Download button, when the full contents aren't listed on the main page of the work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:54, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, that's my bad. I've not tested epub formats, just PDF. Sorry to have complicated things. Packer1028 (talk) 21:13, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd really like to help get a couple of these plays finished, but because the file is PDF, the scan pages do not show up for me when proofreading, so I can't transcribe the text or compare against the original. I also see that you've left out pages here and there, and there is no place to put them in sequence. If I can get the proofread extension to cooperate, I'll tackle André, since it's a bigger challenge for formatting than the others because of the poetic structure of the lines. I'm some experience with formatting that from my work on Shakespeare plays. André is also a significant early American play. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Which ones would you like to do? Because of the PDF issue, I've been doing page-by-page text downloads from HathiTrust, inserting the text onto each page, and then editing it therein. I've actually developed a couple shortcuts for getting speech-prefixes and stuff edited pretty quickly. I'll start André today, so that it'll be ready for you. I really appreciate your interest on, and help with, this project. Look forward to working with you; if you're okay with fixing the TOC issue listed above, could you? I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to do so myself. Best, Packer1028 (talk) 21:18, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, also, (1) if it makes more sense to just do each play on an individual page, then I'll have to be okay with that. I just wanted it to be easy for readers to download plays individually in a way that would allow them to navigate each play with its own TOC. (2) If the pages I've left out are the additional title pages, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that they were redundant since Quinn adds his own title page to each play. (They're also a pain to format, which is why none of them have been done yet, at least by me.) Otherwise, I'm not sure to which pages you're referring. Packer1028 (talk) 21:24, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I had assumed that the "extra" title pages were playbill reproductions. They should be done, and included, as they are part of the volume and include information, not just a repetition of the title.

For people who read on-line, I think splitting the front matter up across multiple pages will be frustrating. André has five pages of introductory material split across four pages, which I think makes it harder to use. People who download won't see any difference if you use the templates that create page-breaks in downloads. See, for example, Agamemnon_(1877)_Browning.

I'm most interested in doing André and The Prince of Parthia, because of their historical status and because they are poetic, which requires more formatting experience than prose, and I've been doing poetic translations of Greek works. However, I'll start with André only after I finish doing Richard III, so I might not start on it until June. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:13, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I'll try to get to fixing those plays based on your model in the near future. André is ready for when you're available next month, and when I have time, I'll do POP. Packer1028 (talk) 20:30, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

André versification

The lines of André are written in verse, and splits words that we would today consider single-word contractions, but which are split in the text because they are separate syllables in the verse. Merging the two words changes the rhythm of the verse. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:26, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Take a look at the spacing on page 88 of words like: skil'd, rous'd, prov'd, which all have no space in the word.

Compare with: 'T is and 'T was, which have a space, to indicate they are two syllables, just with a weak form of It instead of a strong form, and not the contracted single syllable 'twas or 'tis.

Likewise, where I 've appears, it preserves the separate syllables, instead of contracting it to I've; and the same can be said of you 're (you ur), not you're (yore).

Changing the spacing alters the rhythym and the pronunciation of the text. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:34, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Never would have realized this. Would you mind taking on Superstition as well? That's also in verse, and I feel I might have made a mistake or two already in just the first page. The rest of the plays are in prose, as far as I can tell, and I can handle those.

I'll get started on transferring POP soon.
Packer1028 (talk) 05:02, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

The longer you edit, and the more works you edits, the more oddities you'll come across that defy expectations.

I'm disinclined to commit to a third play at this time, given how much I'm hoping to complete while I have a little more unstructured time this month. --EncycloPetey (talk) 12:15, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

That's okay. I'll use your work as a template for it when I get around to it. Appreciate the work you have and are going to do on this project!
Packer1028 (talk) 13:16, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

André is finished. On a related note, I see that you have set up The Prince of Parthia. Thank you. Do not that you need not adjust the size of the footnotes in the text. The footnotes are resized by the {{smallrefs}} template, used at the bottom of the page. I have gone through and adjusted those already for PoP. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh, that's how you reformat the footnotes! I was going to ask you about that one, because I could tell you had done something differently, but I didn't see it in the text. Thanks!
Packer1028 (talk) 17:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)