User talk:Samiur Rahman 2017

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Again, welcome! — billinghurst sDrewth 01:47, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Contribution moved

Hi. I moved an addition of yours to something more aligned with how we would display such a page within the context of its publication. We would also normally work with image scans for proofreading, and display those as explained in the help pages linked above.

@Hrishikes: Could you please work with the contributor to get A Statistical Account of Bengal and the scans of the work. I see that we have volume six as an index page, and presumably the others are available somewhere. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: https://books.google.co.in/books?id=moOMnsFqenYC I'll add the index tonight. Hrishikes (talk) 03:17, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Index:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1.djvu. @Samiur Rahman, Please proofread and transclude, instead of direct entry of text. This site is moving towards scan-backed texts, so that the readers can verify the authenticity of our texts. Hrishikes (talk) 05:55, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

ok, i did a first page here Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1.pdf/10. you need to paginate your index, and then cut and paste your work on each page, and then replace you preface with a <pages> Help:Transclusion. - see also Help:Beginner's guide to Index: files. it is a little complicated to get started, but it makes a better work. Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 18:00, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

ok, i have transcluded the pages here A Statistical Account of Bengal/Preface. the ocr text layer seems to have a problem, but i leave further work to you. Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 19:05, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Move pages

Hello, please move A Statistical Account of Bengal/District of the 24 Parganas
to
A Statistical Account of Bengal, Volume I./District of 24 Parganás/Geography and General Aspect
and
A Statistical Account of Bengal/Preface
to
A Statistical Account of Bengal, Volume I./Preface to A Statistical Account of Bengal, Volume I.
Thank you. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 12:39, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

we would not move these pages to those suggested titles. Firstly we do not use roman numerals, and we would always have the parent name of the work at the root, not a mention of a volume. We can sometimes utilise "Volume n" as a second level, eg. A Statistical Account of Bengal/Volume 1, though often there is not the need when the chapters are all uniquely named, and it is not a serial publication. It also depends on how we wish to and can navigate a work. As it is a more complex work, it would need a proper inspection to give that recommendation, and for that I do not have the immediate time. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:18, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Okay, we are talking a sizeable number of volumes here, I can see at least 19 volumes. There is a difference to how a paper book is published, and to how we publish. We want our works to be available to search engines (internal and external) and for search results to make someone visit. We also need to be aware of the length of a title, and not having it overly long, and still be ineffective. So we will reproduce text, we may not cannot completely replicate the production of the work from its paper form. I am looking at https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.38646/2015.38646.A-Statistical-Account-Of-Bengal--Vol19#page/n15/mode/2up as an example of what is to come. I see no value in using volume in the title as something like .../Volume 19/District of Puri/...(other subpages) is not as useful as straight into the name subdivision. I can see that there are prefaces per volume, so I can see the value in .../Preface to Volume 1 or some variation of that. I really recommend that this should be looked at in the scope of all the volumes of the work, and that may be slightly daunting. I also see true value of considering this as a project looking at the size of the work. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:37, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

A Statistical Account of Bengal and Assam

Please do not create works which do not actually exist. This was actually two separate series. Hrishikes (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

help the newbie, do not upbraid them. Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 18:01, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1

Hi, I made minor edits on page vii and ix of Index:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1.djvu. Where can I find the OCRed text of the rest of the book so I can use it as a basis for proofreading? Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 22:59, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Generally best to keep conversations on the one page. If you want to get my attention, please use {{ping}}. Also a good space for help from the community is WS:Scriptorium/Help where each person here is active, and will usually get first person available response. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, there isn't a text layer, unusual, though not irretrievable. In your toolbar there should be an OCR icon that will quickly OCR the page. I will do a string of pages to assist. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:52, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst:Hi, I did some edits. But where did you get the digitization? It's a bit bad. Did you see the whole page of digitizations I made available?: Talk:A Statistical Account of Bengal Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 00:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

That was the copy that someone uploaded. As it is still in the early stage of this transcription, we can upload another and match or move pages. Which of the scans that you found do you think is the best? — billinghurst sDrewth 10:53, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I have replaced the pdf file with a djvu of one that you identified. See how that progresses. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:30, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: How can I upload digitisations of all the other volumes? Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 14:19, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

┌───────────────────┘
@Billinghurst: Your djvu file lacks the frontispiece. That's why I had not chosen it. Hrishikes (talk) 14:41, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

We needed a text layer, and can "steal a frontispiece". I will have to leave it with you, I am time poor at the moment. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:20, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst:@Hrishikes:Hi. I remember seeing a portal for all the volumes of the work, meant for coordinating the transcription work. I think that's where Billinghurst saw 19 volumes. But I can't fined it anymore. Where is it?Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 23:32, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@Samiur Rahman: Your list is here: Talk:A Statistical Account of Bengal. There are 20 volumes of Bengal series and 2 vols of Assam series. I have already added Vols 6 and 20. @Billinghurst: The volumes from the Digital Library of India have been recently added to IA, when the DLI site closed down for maintenance. Those have no djvu and no text layer. If pdf files are 10 MB or more, djvu conversion by IA upload often fails. So I transferred the pdf file to Commons. I considered the presence of the FP as more important, because I am accustomed to proofread non-ocred pages (e.g. Index:Researches on Irritability of Plants.djvu and others), there being many ways to fetch the ocr. But yes, I understand that the text layer is important to some editors. And Samiur, if you wish, I can add the other vols here, this time with ocr layer, no problem. You please check the vols at Google Books (there are multiple copies per vol) and Internet Archive (including the DLI set), and identify the copies where all pages, frontispiece, other images seem to be present and the scan is properly legible. Don't worry about the presence of ocr layer, that I can create offline. You give me the checked list, I'll add them here. If a few pages are still missing, that can be resolved later. I am busy with other works, so cannot spare the time for checking the copies myself. Hrishikes (talk) 00:57, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

I have added the FP: Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1.djvu/9. Hrishikes (talk) 01:48, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

@Samiur: Here's my two cents about how to transclude it. I am doing another such series. There should be a series root page (e.g. The Mythology of All Races), and a volume root page (e.g. The Mythology of All Races/Volume 6 (Indian and Iranian)). Subpages should be assigned to the series root page (e.g. The Mythology of All Races/Indian Mythology). Volume specific subpages (like volume-specific preface) should be assigned to the volume root page. That's a personal opinion only. Hrishikes (talk) 04:27, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Converting PDF to djvu

@Billinghurst: Hi. Which tool did you use to convert Index:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1.djvu from PDF to djvu? Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 15:45, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

I didn't use any tool, I just downloaded straight from archive.org. toollabs:ia-upload can take other formats fro IA and convert and upload to Comons as djvu. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:05, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Transcription help

@Billinghurst: Will you see what the problem with this page is? Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/30 Thank you. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 18:59, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Index:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 14 GoogleBooksID c44BAAAAQAAJ.pdf and others

I've been finding a small number of duplicated pages in these, whilst I am assuming good faith it would be appreciated if you could examine these files in more detail, to ensure Wikisource and Commons has good quality scans of this work in contrast to the Google Books scans with duplicated pages?

Thanks.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:02, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Hmm... Not as much of an issue as I first thought on reviewing. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:55, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Runningheader

@Slowking4:Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/14 doesn't actually have a header. What should be done here?
Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 22:18, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

When there is no header in the book, just remove it from the page. The text is added automatically for convenience where it is needed, but sometimes must be removed by hand. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:28, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Creating a page

@Slowking4: @EncycloPetey:Also, the subsection titled "Geography and General Aspect" (Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/22) ends right in the middle of a page (Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/53). If we are to create a page for this subsection and provide link from the page on the project (A Statistical Account of Bengal), how are we going to do it?
Thanks.
Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 22:31, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

It's not really that hard. There's a little written about it at Help:Transclusion#How to transclude single-section. Basically, we divide the page with hidden section markings, so just part of the page can be included somewhere else. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:38, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Indent problem

@EncycloPetey: Hi, Thanks again. I see here that there are three levels of indents. on this page. The text that says "District of 24 Parganas," the one that says "Geography and General Aspect-continued," and the ones that say "Forest and Jungle Produce, Pasture Grounds, etc." Slowking4 used the gap tag on this page. But on page 23, there is an indent right between the two indents on page 22. How can we code in the three levels of indent on page 23?
Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 22:46, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

For the indent that is in-between, you can set a smaller width for the gap, using {{gap|1em}}. The default value is 2em, but you can set other values by including them in the template. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Fixing obvious mistakes and errata

@Slowking4: @EncycloPetey:
Should I fix obvious mistakes?
Like on the tabel of contents page xvii, "Natural Calamities" section should be from pages 159-164 instead of 159-163, while the "Means of Communication, Commerce, Manufactures, etc." should be 166-182 insted of 166-175.
On page 33, "Those bound for Báliágháta" should read "Those bound for Báliághátá"
Should I apply the errata found at the beginning of a volume?
Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 23:41, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes and no. Obvious mistakes should be corrected, but the original text must also be respected. What we do in situations like this is use the {{SIC}} template. The documentation for the template will show you how to use it.

Applying published errata is more complicated, and not easily explained. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:18, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: Thanks. I can use the {{SIC}} template for the seemingly minor mistake in the local name "Báliághátá." But I don't know about the two instances of page number mistakes on a single page of the table of contents. It seems like a bit too extensive. But still the table of contents need to be correct. I don't know what to do about this one.

About the errata, it seems natural to apply the errata, because these errors have already been identified, and the text is better with the mistakes fixed, even while we publish the errata alonglide.

I hope we can achieve some clarity.

Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 01:42, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

You can apply {{SIC}} around just the page number that is wrong. For errata, there is a procedure for implementing them, but it is complicated even for experienced editors. I would just wait until you have finished cleaning up the entire work, then ask for help with the errata. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:12, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Line breaks in the Table of Contents

@Slowking4: @EncycloPetey:
Hi, how can I introduce line breaks in the Table of Contents. Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/24 Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 01:04, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

One way is to insert a table row that includes only a {{gap}} template, so that nothing is displayed on that row, and the neighboring rows are therefore distanced from each other. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:17, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

nice work, you might also insert blank rows with "|- & |" (sorry about the table code) i don’t know i would worry about line breaks, if all the text is in the right place. there is also a hanging indent code, which is not working for me in table, so the text flows (at a certain point, it is an approximation, and you can get closer but is the work worth it) Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 02:23, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Table of Contents

@EncycloPetey: Will you see how to fix this page? Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/25
Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 02:14, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Decimal marks

@EncycloPetey: @Slowking4:This work uses decimal marks at the top of the line, like a bullet used as a superscript. It don't know as to whether we can use a makeshift character for that as a bullet character used as a superscript or should I just change it to a decimal mark at the bottom. See here: Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/32 "which is 7^•80 square miles, and of its suburbs, which amount to 23^•17"
Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 02:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

We usually just transcribe them as modern decimal mark, on the line at the bottom. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:50, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

yes, you get to set the standard of how you will interpret the typography. historically, we have used modern decimals for the centered dots, (less confusion for the reader) but you can use symbols / special characters, for this, such as "•" or "·" - i would not advise it. Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 02:56, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Hanging indent

@Slowking4: The hanging indent is not working on this page Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/27 Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 03:10, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

yes, i will take it out. there is a way to make the text flow right, but i forgot, and the column width is not right either. maybe i should try template:TOC . Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 03:13, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Tables

@Slowking4: This work contains many tables. I've chosen to put images of the tables. I've put two table in for two pages. Can we adjust the image size as part of the syntax? See Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/57 and Page:A Statistical Account of Bengal Vol 1 GoogleBooksID 9WEOAAAAQAAJ.pdf/58
Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 03:16, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

i have use template:FI, which lets you set width, for example here, Page:Woman_of_the_Century.djvu/6 i would be tempted to try to reconstruct the table though. Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 03:32, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Forgot to ping my response. @Slowking4: This may be a preliminary effort. If someone wants to put in the effort to reconstruct it, they can. I think we actually need victor drawing software not a chart-making software.Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 21:28, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Tabel of contents in Volume 1 of A Statistical Account of Bengal is missing a section

@Slowking4: @EncycloPetey:@Ineuw:@Lythronaxargestes:
The Table of Contents is missing an entire section in Volume 1 (page xvii).

Land Tenures in the 24 Parganas. - 261

The First Class of Tenures - 262

Zamindari. -262

Taluk. - 264

Resumed Lakhiraj Tunures. - 265

Taufir Estates. - 265

Khas Mahal. - 266

Ijara or Farms. - 267

Jangalburi Taluks - 267

The Second Class of Tenures - 268

(1) Shamilat Taluks. - 268

(2) Patni Taluk. - 269

(3) Istimrari, Mukarrari, and Maurusi. - 270

(4) Ijara – 271

(5) A Ganthi -272

(6) Thika. - 272

(7) Jot or Jama. - 273

(8) Zar-I-Pesghi or Lahona Tenures – 275

(9) Khanabari Tenures - 275

(10) Chakdari Pattas. - 275

(11) Jalkar Jama. – 276

(12) Peculiar Tenures – 276

The Third Class of Tenures – 276

The Fourth Class of Tenures – 278

The Lkhiraj Rent-free Tenures – 278

Estates held in Fee-simple. - 281

What should we do here?
Thank you.
Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

@Slowking4: @EncycloPetey:@Ineuw:@Lythronaxargestes:@Hrishikes:
I think the problem is that we have a system for noting mistakes in the text but we don't have one for noting mistakenly missing text. I actually put in the text in the table of contents. It's probably the best we can do now.
Thanks.
Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 15:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

that’s a new typographic error (for me). i would be tempted to include a note in the header, with some brackets, similar to Template:DNB errata. Slowking4 ‽ SvG's revenge 15:47, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

@Slowking4: @EncycloPetey:@Hrishikes:
How will you note a missing word, possibly?
Thanks.
Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 18:12, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

You can create that section within <includeonly>section</includeonly> and put a header note that the section was missing in TOC in the original book. If a single word is missing, then you can use SIC template on the previous word and include the missing word within the template, so that the reader can see the missing word as hover text. Hrishikes (talk) 18:29, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

@Hrishikes: I need a little help for the header syntax and note. Thanks Hrishikes. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 19:00, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

I think that the note and the missing text should be in the table of contents so that it would show the missing info to readers in the main namespace. I would add a color background to the explanation and the cells with the missing text. If it's in the header, it won't be seen in the main namespace. — Ineuw talk 21:32, 2 December 2017 (UTC) — Ineuw talk 22:12, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Done -- A Statistical Account of Bengal/Volume 1 Hrishikes (talk) 02:55, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

@Hrishikes: Should we call the page "Front matter and map?" Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 16:51, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

You can call so, but ordinarily, name of the work title is sufficient for the root page, i.e., it is the Vol 1 page. Hrishikes (talk) 16:57, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

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