User talk:TeysaKarlov

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, TeysaKarlov, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

You may be interested in participating in

• Proofread of the Month
• Monthly Challenge
• Requested texts

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Monthly Challenge :)

Just a quick note to say thank you for your work on the Monthly Challenge!

Also, just to maybe save you a few key presses, you do not need {{hws}} and {{hwe}} for most text: the software automatically joins hypens that cross page boundaries (see H:HYPHEN for details).

Thanks again! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 00:01, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I would like to second Inductiveload's sentiment. I'm profoundly grateful for all your hard work on the Monthly Challenge. Languageseeker (talk) 00:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

Thank you both for the appreciation. However, I expect my current contributions are 'above-average' (not that I yet have an average), as it is only while my thesis is under examination that I have a bunch of spare time to commit to something productive.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind comments, and, of course, thanks for all of (both of) your past and present contributions to Wikisource.

If you would also humour me two questions:

First, is there a way to filter non-monthly challenge texts based on e.g. <50 pages to proofread, validate etc.?

Second, is there a way to finish partially complete texts that are "live" on Wikisource? For example, one of the works I always used to like reading was "Poems That Every Child Should Know", and I hoped that on joining Wikisource I could just proofread the last of the poems in Book IV. But there don't seem to be scans for them. The same seems to be true for "Grimm's Household Tales Volume 1 and 2" (1884, Margaret Hunt), and, of course, the same is probably true for many other texts I haven't read. Anyway, are these scans located somewhere on Wikisource that I just can't seem to find, or have they not even been digitized whatsoever? TeysaKarlov (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Page number location

Thank you for moving the {{smallrefs}} to the footer [Page:The Works of H G Wells Volume 4.pdf/55 e.g.], but please note that the footnotes should appear above the page number, not below it. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:19, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for the hint. I had where refs should go on my list of things to check up on, and was looking for another work in the monthly challenge that had page numbers at the bottom to see what order things should turn up in, although I guess I don't have to now.

Thanks again, and I will fix the order of things up if you haven't already. TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

End of page br

The <br /> at the end of a page is there to ensure a blank line between a concluded stanza and the next. If you add one, it will separate two parts of a stanza.

Yes, it is true that you will see a bit wider separation between final lines in the Page namespace. This is a known bug. Proofreading should focus on making the transcluded copy work, even if the Page namespace is a little wonky. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

Thanks for the hint. I wasn't sure about this, and as is my general way of doing things, I thought I would just keep working through to see how often I might see a break at the end of a page you had proofread (I only saw one, and wondered whether this was intentional).

Thanks again, and I will go back and change things. TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:29, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I have been making a second look, so you do not need to go back through. I like to know if I am making errors, and if so, where I made them. You did catch some errors in the front matter. Thanks.

Also, I have only transcribed through page 53, and Notes at the end, so there are 25 pages I have no yet done. I do hope to have it finished by tomorrow. Thanks for Validating! --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

Given the line break issue, I thought I would check first, but some of the italicized scene settings, e.g. '[The Soldiers do such and such' that are on their own lines are not all float-righted. However, at least I cannot figure out the reason why some are and some aren't. Should I float-right them all? Or is this just a 'its okay if the Page namespace is a little wonky' sort of an issue, and I shouldn't be concerned about it? TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:28, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

If they were floated right, then the way they align would vary depending on the margins and type size chosen by a reader. So, for any that are lengthy, I applied a hanging indent at a fixed set of values. The layout in the original varies a bit from page to page, but depends upon the margins being fixed, as well as the fact that only one is visible at a time. If they were all floated right, the indent will look wrong when the pages are transcluded, with them being indented to various degrees and not wrapping correctly. Did you take a look at the transcluded text? Yes, this can be considered a "Page-space can be wonky" issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Please don't convert breaks to the poem tag, it usually indicates that a user deliberately avoided it. Cygnis insignis (talk) 14:21, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi,

Could you please remind me when/where I did this, as I don't remember doing so more than once or twice? I am assuming it was something to do with the Poems of William Blake. If so, I think I presumed that it was multiple people who had been working on the proof reading, which might I have been why I converted it. It might also have been the same poem across two pages, that had two different formattings. All things considered, the formatting for the Poems of William Blake seems to vary haphazardly.

Ultimately, I am sorry if I actually screwed something up with a page you proofread, but it looked alright from my (relatively inexperienced) perspective.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

smallrefs template

Hi, I see you're adding {{smallrefs}} to lots of pages in the Page: namespace. It's only needed there on pages where there are references. If there aren't any references, it's ignored. If there are any references in a transcluded section of text, then it's needed on the page in the Mainspace. It's not wrong to have a references template on a page with no references, so there's no harm done other than use of your time. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi, if you see the Scriptorium/Help, you will realise I posted a question about this there (unless you have realised this already). As for what you probably saw in the recent changes log, it was just that I misinterpreted Languageseeker's response (about what "each page" was referring to). Anyway, I have now fixed things, and realised that (what you saw) was a waste of my time. TeysaKarlov (talk) 03:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Help with two works in the MC?

I was wondering if you'd be willing to help with Index:The Works of H G Wells Volume 5.pdf or A Study in Scarlet. They're both about to expire this month which would be shame. Languageseeker (talk) 20:23, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

Short answer: possibly.

Long answer: I am often hesitant to work on multi-part works (I don't know what to call them, but think of things like the Dial, where there are a bunch of articles put together). If you are just asking for help with a Study in Scarlet p. 50-95 (+ the problematic table), and not the rest of the Beeton's Christmas Annual work, I could probably squeeze it into my plans for this month. As for H.G. Wells, well, I think there is little that can be done about 500 pages in the remainder of a month (I believe I proofread the significant majority of V4 in more than a month, and not being a story, I feel like it was easier to proofread, e.g. less quotation marks and the like). If you can convince a bunch of other people to help with H.G., then I also can, but otherwise I would rather not start. It might be an idea to leave H.G. Wells off for a few months, and maybe add it into the Monthly Challenge later in the year (their are still some cool new to PD texts that I would prefer to work on first, which may also be true for other MC users).

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Yes, I’m only interested in a Study in Scarlett. You’re probably right about Wells, it’s a bridge to far and there are plenty of other fascinating works. Cheers, Languageseeker (talk) 21:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 4).djvu/200

Thanks.

You are using the TOC templates to get the Dot leaders? Was there a reason you couldn't do this as a normal table , and set up an Indexstyle? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 Yes, I was using the TOC to get the dotted lines. I am not sure what an index style is, or how to set one up, which is probably the reason why I didn't use one. If you provide some hints about how to (or a link to the relevant help page) maybe I will next time. TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:33, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Orley Farm

Thank you so much for getting through verifying/correcting my Orley Farm transcriptions, index updates, etc. You've been really helpful :) Nmarshall25 (talk) 23:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nmarshall25 No problem at all. Really though, I should be thanking you. It is a refreshing change to have a new user both daring enough to attempt all sorts of things from the get go, and to be so receptive to changes (as I have been working through, your continued improvements both in accuracy and in matching styles for this work have not gone unnoticed). At this point, it is only a few minor things to fix, like using the longest version of the conventional dashes (— not –; I think the latter is for page number ranges and the like), and using SIC properly, if its use is appropriate. If so, you should put text inside the template, like {{SIC|tpyo|typo}}, although these don't come up all that often, as it is usually just some archaic spelling, or British vs. American English non-issue, which sic isn't really right for. If you were using sic solely for the validator, to tell them to leave something as is, you can always leave a comment instead with < !--comment--> (except without a space between < and !). Anyway, thanks again, all help with the MC (and Wikisource in general) is much appreciated. TeysaKarlov (talk) 05:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nmarshall25 It seems, had I finished validating, that you had also figured out dashes and sics. At the very least, I can say that if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Actually, one final hint, page end hyphen is for when you want the hyphen preserved. If the word shouldn't naturally have a hyphen, don't use any template, just leave the hyphen. TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

The Gospel of Buddha

Hi, the transclusion problems for this work apparently came from the use of {{float center}} around the transclusion command in the main namespace pages ([1]). Nevertheless, I already removed the work from the MC on your request.--Tylopous (talk) 06:15, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous Okay. Ultimately, I was just concerned (particularly given the discussion over the Elene of Cynewulf) whether the way those pages have been formatted would be considered acceptable by Wikisource standards, particularly for compatibility across multiple devices. It also seems a little odd with the sentences not "connected" because there is an image in the way (although I realise sometimes images are placed mid-sentence and that that is okay). If you personally want it transcluded, I am happy to start a Scriptorium discussion about the right way to transclude the text, but I would be hesitant to proceed as is, (not that the float center fix isn't helpful/good to know).

Thanks,TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:19, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

The work is not on my list of priority projects. I may work on the transclusion myself at some point.

Thank you for being one of the contributors most active on transclusions in the MC.--Tylopous (talk) 06:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous No problem. Feel free to add some more. Also, not sure why, but when I edit the MC Module, nothing seems to happen any more (or at least not for a while). Is this just me and/or am I doing anything wrong (note that v17 Orley Farm and the Defensive Ferments entries I have updated recently to no avail, although Orley eventually appeared as completed, while I am grateful that the duplicate for Historic Highways was noticed and removed)? Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 07:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I also noticed these lags. Now I can see the changes in my browser, but it has taken at least half an hour, if not more, for them to appear.

For me, these lags not only affect the MC page, but also other main namespace pages. For instance, when I removed some paragraph break in the Elene of Cynewulf during validation, it also took at least half an hour before I could see the change in the transcluded text. When I performed analogous changes last year, they appeared almost instantly in my browser also for the transcluded text.--Tylopous (talk) 07:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous I have also seen said main namespace lags, particularly with links being created not immediately swapping to blue. At least there, I find that if I click "edit"-"publish changes" again, even if making no changes, I get an immediate update (including if I edit the source of a text). TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:27, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Greek accents

Hi, the curved variety of accents appears only word-initially and marks whether there is a "rough" or "smooth" breathing (in other words, whether the word was originally pronounced with something equivalent to English "h" or not. But a word starting with a diphthong like alpha+upsilon can have the curved accent on the second letter. Most of the times, there's exactly one other accent (for example one of the straight accents) in a word. But you can safely assume accents appearing late in a word as not being of the "curved" kind.--Tylopous (talk) 21:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

There will be some exceptions, where these breathing marks occur in the middle of a word, such as on a double rho, or on a vowel where two words have been contracted together. If you're unsure, you can always ask for help in a specific case. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey, @Tylopous Thanks for the hints, I will try and keep them in mind. At this stage, my focus is still mainly on getting the letters right, with a bonus if I get the accents (although I swear I can never even find the ones for omega), just to save some work for whoever might look over it. That said, always good to try and improve. Thank you both for whenever you have looked over things in the past, and possibly in the future, as there is now only one page left to be double checked: Page:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire vol 1 (1897).djvu/536. TeysaKarlov (talk) 02:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I use a toggle setting that allows me to type polytonic Greek using my keyboard, so I don't have to hunt. :) --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Ellipsis w/o spaces

Hi, I see you reverted my edit on page 252 of "The works of H.G. Wells vol. 6", and inserted a space before the ellipsis. As the documentation of this template explains, "The intention is replace an ellipsis with single, non-breaking spaces between the ellipsis marks." If you insert a space between the previous word and the template, there is a chance that the ellipsis "breaks", i.e. is shown on a new line, and not following the previous word. Furthermore, in all the volumes of this work that I've worked on, we have been consistently avoiding the use of that separating space, and I think we should keep it that way. Tromaster (talk) 20:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Tromaster,

First, I'll just preface this by saying I don't mind which convention we use. From Vol. 4 onward, I have been consistently using ellipsis the way I originally proofread the page. My interpretation of your above comment and the template page is that the template naturally stop breaks between the ellipsis marks, without needing nowrap. However, the template also doesn't say anything against a break between a word and the ellipsis marks, which I think is intentional, as it just prohibits breaks between the marks (which wouldn't have happened). When you put the ellipsis next to the word (no space) it looks like an end of sentence, and then two ellipsis marks (and I thought that generally 4 ellipsis marks were used at the end of a sentence, but only three were printed). Again, if you are determined to have no space between word and ellipsis, feel free to switch it back again, and I'll leave it as is. I also put an alternate nowrap alternative with the space, if you prefer that.

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Principia Ethica

Hi, I've been converting the ToC pages into TOC format and have been marking those which have entries split across pages as 'problematic'. I was planning to fix them en masse using <noinclude> and <includeonly> markup so that both the individual pages and the transclusion render correctly. Regards, Chrisguise (talk) 10:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Chrisguise,

I see, sorry for meddling then. I guess I figured that if you have to look at the next page to validate the previous anyway, that it may as well be kept simple, and so moved the text.

Thanks for all your help with the MC, particularly the transcluding, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were meddling. Help from any quarter is always appreciated. Chrisguise (talk) 19:33, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Dressmaking - Thanks...

Thanks for working on this :- A_Complete_Course_in_Dressmaking/Lesson_2

I've split the patterns stuff out into it's own section, which works better thematically. You might want to do that for subsequent volumes :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @ShakespeareFan00,

Ah, no problem. If it ends up in the MC for transclusion there is about a 50% chance I end up working on it.

As for sections, I have generally been sticking to sectioning whatever titles are all caps. Feel free to adjust as you see fit, but I generally avoid such judgement calls if I can.

I didn't notice this before, but do you know why some of the sub-headings don't seem to be transcluding correctly, e.g. Page:A complete course in dressmaking, (Vol. 2, Aprons and House Dresses) (IA completecoursein02cono).pdf/31.

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 03:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It's to do with mediwiki trying to wtrap text fragments and failing in this specfic use case. I'm not sure how to solve it right now, other than converting all the headers back to plain-text formatting again, which is waste of my time when someone should sit down and actually FIX the backend so I don't have to implement convoluted workarounds for shortcomings in the wrapping behaviour. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Years!

Happy New Years! May it bring you all the best this year. Languageseeker (talk) 00:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Languageseeker,

You too! Thanks for the well wishes. Definitely seemed more subdued over New Years here though. No frantic scanning on your end? All good either way, of course. And here's to me hopefully finishing HHoA this year, assuming I can make it through the captivating Volume 16 that awaits me, while it looks like you have a few more (happy) years of Sherlock Holmes ahead of you.

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Historic Highways of America vol. 10

Hi, after validating the last few pages of volume 10, I wondered whether it might be useful for the coming volumes to work with includeonly and noinclude tags, in order to avoid moving text across page boundaries. The usage of these tags is explained here: [2]. (Chrisguise once pointed me to this useful help page.)

Moreover, in Appendix A, perhaps the table construction could have been avoided by using the template {{-}} after each use of {{float right}}.--Tylopous (talk) 06:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Tylopous,

Thanks for the hints. I did think that table got a little out of hand, with how many times I had to move text, however, I don't understand how the includeonly and noinclude tags help with that. Don't I still have to move text, but also have a duplicate on the actual page the text appears? See something else Chrisguise was working on where I hadn't done this but they had: Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/24, Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/25. Thus, when validating, if there is an error, you have to change it in two places, not one, which seemed more annoying. Sorry if it turns out that this is actually less annoying than moving the text.

I was also completely unaware of the {{-}} template, I'll have to try it out.

Thanks again (and particularly for all your validating of HHoA so far), TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:34, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, you are right, the text still needs to be moved. I didn't put that correctly in my message above. But the tags help to keep the single transcribed pages closer to the original ones.

The {{-}} template more or less adds vertical space so that the next paragraph doesn't collide with the float right above it.--Tylopous (talk) 07:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Having seen your comment on Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 11).djvu/63, I wondered whether your problem with this page might be remedied by clearing your browser cache. (I once had a similar problem while proofreading The Country of Pointed Firs.)--Tylopous (talk) 09:42, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

@Tylopous I tried doing this, but it seemed to stubbornly refuse to clear. Never mind now I suppose. Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:37, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Historic Highways of the United Kingdom.

Not quite as organised a series but - https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Harper%2C+Charles+G.+%28Charles+George%29%2C+1863-1943%22&sort=date

You might also need to search Hathi and Google for the other volume of a paired set ... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 Thanks for the info. Not sure how interested I am in more historic highways, but maybe. If I don't end up working on one of the other long series in the MC (Philippine Islands, or maybe the Mythology one that went through a few months back), I was thinking of maybe requesting Parkman's Montcalm and Wolfe be added. I thought I might read a couple of pages first to see if I like how the author writes, though. We'll see how we go. At any rate, thanks for keeping an eye out, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Poems spanning pages

Hi, and thanks for your edits in the [[History of Woman Suffrage]] volumes. This topic was often discussed and tested more than a decade ago. The best result is ending the poem independently on each page. This should be guided by the final result displayed in the main namespace page, from where one would print. That is what needs to be considered alongside the display. — ineuw (talk) 05:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Curly quotes, etc. in 'Tristram'

Hi, Don't mind either way. I tend to make quite a lot of use of the 'Clean up OCR' tool, which converts curly quotes, commas, etc. to straight ones, but I also have the tool installed that converts them back too. Chrisguise (talk) 12:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Works for the Monthly Challenge

In case there are few nominations for the MC in any particular month, alternative places for finding works include:

• Wikisource:Requested texts and yearly subpages
• Wikisource talk:Proofread of the Month declined
• Category:Mainspace pages with transcluded OCR errors
• Category:Migrated texts requiring clean up
• Category:Incomplete texts
• Category:Texts to be migrated to scans
• Works by authors previously in the MC
• Previous incomplete works

I also include one or two documents related to current affairs. MER-C 10:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @MER-C,

A very helpful list of lists. I might add a couple more, but so many choices...

Thanks,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

== How We Think request to be proofread ==

Index:How we think (IA howwethink00deweiala).pdf 82.167.150.69 11:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

I have put in a bot request in to get the pages upgraded. Hopefully it doesn't take too long. Many thanks for all of your contributions to Wikisource! TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

The Treasure Seeker

Thanks for validating The Crimson Fairy Book/The Treasure Seeker. Just wondering if there was a particular reason you switched it from curly to straight quotes? Would you object if I switched it back? --Yodin^T 16:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

@Yodin At the moment, I believe the Andrew Lang Coloured Fairy books are 5/8 using straight quotes, 3/8 using curly quotes. Given that it is simpler for a bot request to covert curly to straight to make the entire series consistent, I favor continuing the series with straight quotes. If you had plans to switch the entire series to curly quotes, I would be fine with that. TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok! 👍 I wouldn't mind switching the entire series to curly quotes; I'll take a look at how feasible this is to do via AWB. --Yodin^T 21:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Sep MC

Are you on and setting up the September MC list? --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I haven't seen you on, but the new month template is being fed to the Main Page, so I've copied over everything from last month (except the oldest month), and have put in two "new" works to get the month started. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey Thanks. I was coming back to it to do the rollover, but time got away from me I guess. I'll fix things up as appropriate. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:14, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Flint and Feather

In removing the header from the pages of the work, you've eliminated the header label and link to the Part in which the poem is located. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey I had noticed this. However, even though I do not like magic headers, I like inconsistent headers even less. And given that the previous poems had been transcluded with magic headers (which also do not link to the Part of the work), I continued with them. If you intend to go back through and correct all the headers, I can stop transcluding. If you don't intend to, I am not sure whether I will get around to switching the header styles, as my next fix for this work was going to be to center block the poetry on all the recently proofread pages. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

As long as what you are doing is intentional, that is what matters, and it sounds as though you are working around other considerations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism

Your moves were incorrect. Volume I and Part I are not the same. Volume I includes several Parts, each with a Chapter I. Dividing this work by volumes does not make sense. Volume I includes the Preliminary, Part 1, and Part 2, Vol. II picks up with Part 3 --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @EncycloPetey,

I felt like the nesting to keep both volumes and parts was excessive. I was/am aware that volume 1 includes two parts, each with a chapter 1. The moves are consistent with how I created the TOC. More importantly, are you saying you are/intend to revert the moves?

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

The Parts are major topics as determined by the Author, and are thematic. The Volume 1 / 2 split is an arbitrary division by the publisher, since the work was too long for a single volume. The Parts are much more important for a reader than the volumes and are the reason the work was originally divided by its Parts. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

There is no reason to divide by volumes. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

It will be of FAR more use to the reader to know they are in Part III, Chapter IV, which matches the book's table of contents, than to see a header indicating the Volume number and a sequential chapter number chosen by Wikisource, neither of which relate to the original topics. Navigation in a multi-part book is tied thematically to the Part numbering --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey Not saying I disagree. Had I seen the discussion pages for this text before I started, I might have opted for the base name/volume/part/chapter nesting. However, at least today, and quite possibly in the near future, I am not sure I can be bothered changing it (or arguing some of the points). If you want to revert whatever edits I have made, or want to change the table of contents, feel free. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Looking Backward, 2000-1887 - stray pages

There are seven pages not linked from the index, with numbers a lot higher than the body of the book - starting at Page:Looking Backward, 2000-1887 (Bellamy).pdf/518 through to Page:Looking Backward, 2000-1887 (Bellamy).pdf/524. Can they all be put for speedy delete ? -- Beardo (talk) 22:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Beardo,

Yes, they can all be put for speedy delete. I replaced the original index, as some of the pages were either duplicated or out of order, and checking whether some of the original pages still existed didn't cross my mind.

Thanks,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

relative x absolute links

Hello. I have noticed that here you have changed relative links to absolute links. However, the usual approach is to prefer relative links whenever possible. A minor disadvantage is that they are red in the page NS, but this NS is just a workplace for proofreading, and in main NS they work fine. The main advantage of relative links is that they will not get broken if the work is moved later to a different title (which sometimes happens, e. g. because of disambiguation reasons). So, would you mind if I reverted the change? Or, if you really do not like the red links in the page NS, I can use the {{namespace link}} templates to make them black. -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 12:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Jan.Kamenicek,

I am not a fan of red links (in any namespace), but am not against you reverting the changes for European Elegies without using namespace link templates. That said, I do not feel like using relative links outside of the header template is common practice.

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 18:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Not my conversation, but I started using the relative links (having preferred absolute), happily, when the wiki did not allow me to use ../../../ style links because the Page: namespace was not buried as deeply as what was probably a magazine issue was/would be. It was a problem when linking to other issues that might be in other volumes; which are cool links, but probably red links when made.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

monthly challenge

I would like to put Index:Wind in the Willows-Rackham.djvu into the monthly challenge. The beginnings of the chapters are kind of complicated, but I can fix them if required. The rest is fairly straight forward.

Later, once it is fixed and I have the front matter done, the same with Index:Compleat Angler-Rackham.djvu. That was my first scan and iirc, I started by trying to change the page number myself. I soon learned to let the scanner number them, but I did not learn that soon enough for this book! It is fixed or almost fixed and needing uploading.

I think I managed to drop Big Sur into it a few years back but haven't been there since.

I was going to nominate it, but the nominations are all for texts to be added? I can get and process some of those nominations.

I really like doing the images, tables of contents, and layout. I started here for the illustrations. I picked Rackham to concentrate on because I liked this one little image that was in Undine and I was very angry that my computer had died in an amateur and sad hack (not my hack, btw). It became Rackham instead of the math books I had been looking into. Maybe this is too much backstory; I am just going to be doing the images and front matter and set up the overall layout and hopefully drop them into Monthly Challenge without ruffling too many feathers or bonnets.

Unless you think I shouldn't.

Recap:

1. Index:Wind in the Willows-Rackham.djvu; add this to December or wait until January gets started or don't add it at all?
2. Index:Compleat Angler-Rackham.djvu ditto, when fixed and ready.
3. Do you want nomination help?
4. (which technically I did not cover in my ramble) If not you to be making these decisions then who? Some place when I was poking around, it looked like you had been keeping things going there. That is the reason I am here and also, I find you to be approachable. Sorry for all of the assumptions.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @RaboKarbakian,

Thanks for the message. First off, I enjoy your ramblings. I wouldn't have known about the "Unexpected things that I am pretty sure are happening because I have been hacked" list of yours without them, and it explains so much about the world. And I am not sure there is ever too much backstory either. As for the content of your message:

Feel free to add both works to the MC, when ready. January is fine, but you can add them in December if you prefer. I don't see why any feathers (or bonnets) should be ruffled by this.

I was awaiting January 1 to start dealing with the current nominations. I would rather avoid any doubling up of effort, so if there was anything specifically you were offering to help with (e.g. just uploading scans to Commons), please let me know.

I am also not sure who officially makes decisions for the MC. It is all not very official, and I prefer it that way. I have also been trying to nudge the MC toward a system where it accepts nominations that aren't explicitly rejected, rather than requiring justifications for inclusion. So I don't see any issue with either index of yours being added to the MC, whether they go through the nomination page or not. Besides that, I have also been trying to keep the MC going by dealing with nominations + transclusion/to-fix works when I can, assisted by a few other more experienced users. Always appreciate more help though.

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• RaboKarbakian (and TeysaKarlov, I suppose): The Wind in the Willows is copyrighted, so it should not be added. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:08, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

TE(æ)A,ea. I did look before uploading. I guess my mistake was in searching this site for an "author" who is really just an illustrator. https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog?exhibit_id=copyrightrenewals&search_field=search_author&q=Rackham%2C+Arthur

TeysaKarlov MC was being run fairly successfully by an AIbot: User:Languageseeker. Of the bots that I know were running here, this bot was my favorite. The bot was very very enthusiastic about old books and fairly good at answering newbie questions. I know it was a bot because it spewed my own words back to me on a different wiki. That bot had some bad information about file formats but other than that, the only thing that was wrong with it was that it was posing as a person.

Very very bad and ethically in the dark dark gray zone were/are the bots that were/are running with administrative powers and that were also escalation bots on other wiki. Admin should not ever encourage or reflect anger and resentment. The best admin I ever seen at anything wiki was the exact opposite of that User:Hesperian. Like a cool mint after an overly rich meal.

It takes a bit of familiarity with code to run MC; so I am assuming that you have that talent. I can add things there or probably even get January going, if the documentation there was as straight-forward as it seemed. <--This paragraph was skirting around me wondering if you are a bot and I edited it to not do that. I could write 5x the amount that I have written here already (I am adding this after a preview) about how much I am grateful that your answers seem like from a real person; as was our exchange earlier about the damn hyphen. I made some really good friends on the internet in the early 2000s; real people who I met and still adore. There is a sad quote from Blade Runner, from that guy who built the automatons something like "My mom told me to go out and make some friends, so I did." I watched the User:EncycloPetey bot use the same words that the User:Billinghusrt bot did; and I am so sad because I am pretty sure they were both people at one time whom I learned a lot about the wiki from.

Full disclosure for good bots and termination of anything that escalates bad vibes would surely make the wiki a good place again (which seems to have happened). At least a much nicer place than it has been. I avoided MC because of mixed but mostly bad feelings about a software posing as a person. I think that the "joy" of slipping a software in like that is the real enemy of real progress.

Also, ever since I started downloading texts to put on my ereader, I have a software that scans for lint errors making errors in my work. I have been trying to think of the why for this. It took a while to get past the "stalking" part, but I like the credit that is due to contributors and always include the history in my ereader versions. So I guess now my ereader has been compromised via version history and links to what I thought were people but were instead abusive, judgmental software users who probably have little to do with what goes on here.

One last thing (looking through MC got me thinking) I donated one year and that year, User:Billinghurst did not tear my work apart. So, that is great and reasonable, so I donated the next year. That next year User:Billinghurst changed the way my template {{WD author}} (which has since been rewritten into a module by someone else) worked (the format) and User:Chrisguise started removing links that I had made with it with the explanation that the format was not right. I am still pretty angry about this because there are thousands of bibliography links whose format is not right here! So, there is a question "Are you picking on a person or are you fixing something?" If the answer to that is obvious, that should be stopped.

User:Billinghurst and User:Chrisguise are the reason that emails from wikimedia asking for money get deleted as soon as I see them. Also, it is a sad sad thing that software like User:ShakespeareFan00 make it impossible to give credit to the people who actually edit works here.

Back to MC, finally, factual rather than emotional regurgitation having been completed for now. TE(æ)A,ea. has several scans ready to upload for Public Domain day. I have two; one is all images except for the title page; the 144 images I have scripted to be cropped and I added the wiki markup when I made the djvu. So that one is not good at all for MC. But Steinbecks first novel which is the other scan is great for MC I think. It is a book about pirates. January MC on January 1st should be filled with Public Domain Day works, in my opinion. I have another book that did not get uploaded here on previous PDD, maybe two. I will save those for January 2nd or later but they were both best selling novels in their day.

Weird and mostly sober upload party on Tuesday night?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:52, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

@TE(æ)A,ea. Thanks for checking the copyright, it felt like the kind of text that might be. Sorry for not checking myself, and thanks again.

@RaboKarbakian I agree that "AI bot" Languageseeker was one of the fun ones, and certainly enthusiastic. Even went around emulating humans by wishing them Happy New Years and all sorts of other absurdities.

I am unsure of my talents regarding familiarity with the code for the MC. For a while now I have really wanted to reorder the texts in the MC, so that the new works appear at the top, not the "to fix" ones, but I had no idea where to look. Rather than risking asking one of the bots, I had another hunt around, and found it just now. It's strange where things end up hidden on Wikisource, but all it took was moving three lines of code on Module:Monthly Challenge listing. Hopefully none of the admin bots seek retribution for not proposing the change, but enjoy a slightly new look to next year's MC. Anyway, ramblings aside, I also set up a new set of entries for Module:Monthly Challenge/data/2025-01 for tomorrow. To add a new index, just copy-paste any of the entries within the curly braces of the "[0] = {...}," section of said code, and then start replacing the title of the index, the author name etc. Or feel free to ask, and I can add whichever indices you have prepared.

At this point, I was not going to hold non-Public Domain Day works until January second. More often than not, upload parties don't get everything sorted by Jan 1, and so newly PD works drip into the MC within the first few weeks instead. I am not sure to what degree sobriety is involved. But we can put the "newly PD" works at the top of the MC page, now that it has been rearranged!

P.S. Unfortunately, there are more than just bibliography links whose format is not right here. But don't forget, Wikisource still preserves publisher typos.

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)