Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

PDF images not loading

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T376530Invalid

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T372470Resolved

See, e.g., Index:The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.pdf. This happened yesterday and again to-day when I tested it. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:50, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean the images aren't loading on each page? I see that too, and it happened to me at multilingual WS as well.

If I click the link to the image, I get an error "Too Many Requests" which sounds deeply suboptimal. It might be something wrong on the commons end, since c:File:The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.pdf won't load properly either (although the PDF itself still seems to be accessible.)

I'll ask a question at c:Commons:Village pump/Technical to see if anyone there knows what the issue is. Cremastra (talk) 14:08, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

A side note, but that index appears to be an extract, as it's from a collection and the page numbering starts at 76. — Alien  3
3 3 15:02, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

• Alien: Yes, that’s intentional: see here. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:13, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you for the information. — Alien  3
  3 3 16:14, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Things seem fine now. Was it just a temporary problem? Arcorann (talk) 05:03, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

• Arcorann: What? No, the pages still aren’t loading. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:05, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

For me neither, maybe it's a browser issue? On firefox, and you? — Alien  3
3 3 13:10, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm on Firefox, and it still looks broken. A WMF employee has said they're working on it, though, so hopefully it will be resolved soon. Cremastra (talk) 20:03, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

• I’ve tried Edge and Chrome, both have this issue. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:12, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Now here's something strange: Page:Travels in Europe and Northern Africa. A woman's view (IA travelsineuropen00rose).pdf/11 is broken for me; the page image won't load and I get an error when I try to view the image at [1]. But Page:Travels in Europe and Northern Africa. A woman's view (IA travelsineuropen00rose).pdf/17 is working just fine, as is Page:Travels in Europe and Northern Africa. A woman's view (IA travelsineuropen00rose).pdf/16. Cremastra (talk) 20:47, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Strange indeed: for me it's the first two that work and the third that is broken. Probably related to the WM technical infrastructure (using different servers or whatever). — Alien  3
3 3 06:42, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

FYI: phab:T376530. -Aleator (talk) 10:55, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Seems to be resolved at task T372470. Cremastra (talk) 17:09, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Template help: factotum initials

Factotum initials are a kind of cheap drop cap which were popular in the Early Modern period. Instead of using an ornamental drop cap (see left), there was an ornamental frame into which the printer could drop any ordinary capital letter (see right).

Template:Drop initial allows for the case of ornamental drop caps with its image parameter. But there's no way to produce the same effect for factotum initials, which has led to Commons categories with dozens of images identical to their neighbour except for the letter in the middle.

So, I would like to extend Template:Drop initial to add a factotum switch, where the image given will be displayed with the 1 letter centred on top of it. But that template is complicated beyond my confidence, so I'm asking for help here. Marnanel (talk) 14:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

It's already possible to do that using the existing template, so long as you have uploaded an image to Commons for the initial letter. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Right, but I want to use an image of an empty factotum initial, like

the one on the right here, and add the letter in the middle as an actual letter (rather as the type letter would have been inserted into the original). So it would be a sort of combination of the current modes with and without the image.

Otherwise you end up having to upload images for each of the original letters used, which leads to pointless duplication like this:

• 
  F
• 
  H
• 
  C
• 
  W

which are all clearly the same factotum with a different initial letter inserted! What we have to preserve here is the factotum itself. Preserving the original initial letter as part of the image makes no more sense than preserving any of the rest of the document as an image: it's the very reverse of what Wikisource is here for. Marnanel (talk) 21:28, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

But you will not be able to control the font style or font size, and therefore cannot reliably place the letter into the image. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, there are small differences between the frames in the examples you've given, and not just intensity of shading, but outlines of the leaves themselves. See for example the leaf pair at the frame edge just above nine o'clock. The original is not reusing the same floral frame. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

The "alt=" property on a image allows you to provide the letter, and readers who have images turned off will then see the letter, so you're objection indicates you did not investigate the option I mentioned above. This property is already built into the template, and there are examples in the documentation. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:40, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

• EncycloPetey: “This property is already built into the template, and there are examples in the documentation.” This is obviously not true. The “alt” property is a technical measure which is present in all images, and bears no relation to the factotum image issue presented. The style/size issue is not a problem, as {{overfloat image}} is a commonly used template. I also don’t think that these are different images, but rather different imprints of the same image; in which case, we should isolate the best example and keep that image. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  Overfloat image is fussy and tempermental. Even the example in the template's own documentation does not have the text entirely within the blank space when I view it, though at one time it did. And the template certainly will not play well with the drop initial template. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  And these are not all imprints of the same image. The H and C images are clearly different in multiple ways. The images are all very similar, but they were not printed from the same original. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  I don't see how you can tell that. Initials like these were printed with wooden blocks. As the blocks were used in dozens of books, the image naturally degraded. Marnanel (talk) 19:32, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  I know how printing works, and I also know what kind of wear happens. In this instance, the outlines of the leaves along all four edges are different between the H and C blocks. Look, for example at the lower left flower, which is flanked by buds in the C image, but is not so flanked in the H image. They were not printed from the same block. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  H was definitely from a different block from the rest. F and C are in my opinion probably the same block. W is either very degraded or just badly inked, but it is at least very similar to the F/C block. Cremastra (talk) 23:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Formatting help (Page & Transclusion)

I am having trouble with the formatting of Hurricane Milton Intermediate Advisory Number 11A (Page & Index). When I did the transclusion with the index page, it does not show anything. Can someone assist with this? Whenever I can figure out how to fix Hurricane Milton Intermediate Advisory Number 11A, I'm planning to link it to the EN-Wiki article for the ongoing category 5 hurricane. WeatherWriter (talk) 04:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Where is the scan file of the original? --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I've tried a few things, but have not found anything that makes the content show up in transclusion. It seems to follow the model examples for JPG file transclusion. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

It seems to me like everything is working, and even when looking at the first revision, for me it works. Can you describe your problem more precisely? (note: I also marked the index as proofread & transcluded, as it is) — Alien  3
3 3 12:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: made some edits that seem to have resolved the issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:37, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I know, but when you look at the first revision, it works too (or at least it does for me). But anyway, as it's solved, doesn't really matter. — Alien  3
3 3 18:24, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Changes were made in multiple locations. I'm not sure which fixed the problem, but it wasn't working 12 hours ago. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:29, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The actual issue was that somehow the content on the Page: had been put in the header, rather than the body, which on tranclusion meant there wasn't anything to apparrently transclude.
I'm not going to say I'm immune from making mistakes like that myself though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

WeatherWriter you should announce your finished works here also, by using: Template:New texts--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:17, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I probably won't be doing that. First time I post something there and it got proposed for deletion within a couple hours. WeatherWriter (talk) 23:52, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Balance sheet transcription request

I found this in the film File:Forbidden Fruit (1921).webm at 29:37. I attempted to transcribe part of https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:Notificationsit at User:SnowyCinema/Balancesheet but I'm afraid I don't know enough financial terminology to know what goes where. And with it being written, we can only approximate the formatting. Does anyone think they can help? Feel free to edit the user subpage I gave with your transcription of this balance sheet if you think you can do it. @CalendulaAsteraceae, @Beeswaxcandle, @TE(æ)A,ea.: SnowyCinema (talk) 20:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Here it goes:

'Change to operating expenses' is an 'Income statement' entry in the 'Expenses' section. It's subdivided to 'Freight', 'Fuel,' and 'Salary'. They increase the cost of doing business and affects the 'Equity' section of the 'Balance sheet'.

'Overhead', is an 'Income Statement', can be either a negative 'Revenue' or a positive 'Expenses' entry and also affects the 'Equity' section of the 'Balance sheet'. Namely lowers the company's value.

'Interest' is a 'Revenue' section entry of the 'Income Statement', increasing the bank balance on the 'Balance sheet' and indicates fluidity, and profit.

For the mathematics of double entry bookkeeping, see: Fra Luca Pacioli. The note itself is a prop, and I think it is a McGuffin, like the Maltese Falcon. I hope this helps. — ineuw (talk) 21:56, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ineuw: Do you think you could transcribe it at User:SnowyCinema/Balancesheet? SnowyCinema (talk) 06:02, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Why can't the image be used as is? Are you transcribing the dialog? Can you please explain? — ineuw (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ineuw: Because the props are transcribed alongside the main text of the film. We call that "scenery text" colored blue. SnowyCinema (talk) 17:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Knowledge liberates, It shall be done, as I understand. — ineuw (talk) 18:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@User:SnowyCinema I hope you can use my solution. Also, it's not a Balance sheet, but a Revenue and Expenses Journal. All tables are floating to the left margin using the "fll" shorthand. They shift to the right with "flr", or the center when removed. — ineuw (talk) 13:13, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Links to the Bible

The text I'm transcribing references the Bible a lot, for example:

As it is written 1. Regum. cha. 17. Dauid brake ye beares chin, and deliuered the ſhéepe out of his mouth &c.

I would like to link these references to Bible texts, but I can only see ways to link to specific translations. There's no obvious translation to use for this, since the translation predates the KJV, and I don't want to make choices about translation for the users.

Is it possible to link to a particular chapter in general and let the user choose what translation they want? Marnanel (talk) 21:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

You can only refer to individual books of Bible, for example 1 Samuel (Bible). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks-- I'll do that, then. This feels like something which should have a general solution, though. Marnanel (talk) 12:22, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

need help adding illustrations.

i'm currently transcribing Kapumbo of Oz and in some one the pages there are illustrations . https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Kabumpo_in_Oz.djvu/18&action=edit&redlink=1. for example. How do i insert the illustrations? Booklover09097 (talk) 18:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

In standard situations, I'd go get the higher-quality source files, do some image treatment, upload them to commons, and then insert them.

However, these weeks, the Internet Archive, from which this scan is taken, is down because of a DDoS attack, so we can't do that.

Since the DjVu file is still pretty good quality (i.e. not too garbled), you could extract the images from the DjVu, and then do the process above. — Alien  3
3 3 08:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@User:Booklover09097, here is an example of a proofread page with an uploaded image.Page:Kabumpo_in_Oz.djvu/79 — ineuw (talk) 01:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Are OGL publications on here?

Are books under OGL in the UK (for example, I believe the highway code is?) within the scope of this project? 212.139.168.90 08:17, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, as Help:Licensing compatibility describes it as compatible. — Alien  3
3 3 08:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I am presently working on adding UK Legislation and regulations to Wikisource. Some Statutory Instrument documents are already available here, which do include I believe 1960s highway code and traffic signage regulations. If a particular piece of UK Gov work under the OGL is of interest, feel free to reach out to me and I'd be happy to locate an appropriate scan and upload it for transcription. Penguin1737 (talk) 02:32, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

How do we help out on Wikisource?

How do we help out on Wikisource? RockTransport (talk) 11:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I would recommend looking at the Beginner's Guide, specifically the page on Proofreading. I'd also recommend starting with the Proofread of the Month or other texts listed here, as other users will likely see your edits and be able to help you. Penguin1737 (talk) 02:41, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

IP Block Exemption

Hi, We are experiencing IP Blocks on these accounts: Wikimanus2001 and Wikione010781. Kindly help exempt them as soon as possible because we are currently at a Wikisource event. Thanks Sunkanmi12 (talk) 09:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@Sunkanmi12: Unfortunately, it is not possible to exempt these accounts because they have not been registered on this wiki yet. Besides, once they are registered, no exemption should be necessary. So I suggest either registering the accounts from a different IP which is not blocked, or telling us the blocked IP so that we can unblock it or allow account creation. If you decide for the second choice, you can email me the IP address for privacy reasons if you want. BTW: I cannot see any contributions by any of these accounts on any wiki at all. May I ask what is the purpose of these accounts? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:23, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek These accounts were automatically blocked from logging in to Wikisource. They are new contributors/volunteers that attended our recently organized Workshop Sunkanmi12 (talk) 10:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Sunkanmi12: That is most probably because the IP which they were trying to login from is blocked. We cannot solve it without knowing the IP. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Help with insular

On Page:Poems Young.djvu/9, I'm having trouble identifying the letters. If it's better, the original's at [2], and it's the same text as at [3]. Could someone double-check? Thanks, — Alien  3
3 3 13:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Done Looks good to me and DuckDuckGo confirms that "fáinne geal an lae" is proper Irish for "bright ring of the day". I also looked up the individual terms in en.wikt and they at least appear there, so seems like you got it correct. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:44, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Text rendering in Page namespace (Chrome)

When viewing a rendered Page in the Page namespace in my Chrome browser, applied formatting is not rendered correctly even if the page has been correctly formatted. But the text renders correctly when viewed in the Main namespace. What might the issue be? With my javascript? Gadget settings? I checked how Pages render in Microsoft Edge, and they render fine. How might I resolve this issue so that it renders correctly in Chrome? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:30, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Can you give an example of what pages fail to display correctly, and how? — Alien  3
3 3 12:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

[Update: Renders fine in Chrome incognito mode] Sure... All formatted, proofread pages in the Page:namespace fail to render correctly in my normal Chrome browser. Centering is not centered, poetry is not indented, all is left-aligned. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Maybe a Chrome extensions issue? Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I think so, as I just tested with Page:Poems Strong.djvu/65 on chrome and it worked fine, centering & poetry. (I don't have any extensions) — Alien  3
3 3 12:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I apparently only have 2 extensions. I disabled them, but it made no difference. Hmm... I looked at your page. Header and footer are left-aligned for me, yet the poem formatting renders fine as formatted. Can you tell me how this page renders for you in Chrome? Whether the title is centered and the poem block-centered with indentation? BTW, line indentation renders fine for me here. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Forgive my incessant updates. It seems that only templates are affected, and not 'standard' formatting. e.g., {{center}} does not render as centered, yet <center></center> does (although the gap template renders fine...). Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:47, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

For the page you gave, the title is properly centered, the poem lines are indented, but the poem itself is on the left. Can you go to WS:sandbox and tell me if you see it centered? — Alien  3
3 3 13:27, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. It appears as centered. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:30, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Sidenote aligning

How do I get a sidenote to not indent when it's next to text that's been indented with a :. For reference Page:Abortion Act 1967 (UKPGA 1967-87 qp).pdf/4 ToxicPea (talk) 17:14, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

ToxicPea: I added negative indents to the nested stuff in 6. But, maybe this is not what you were looking for. If not, *please* undo what I did. {{hi}} after the ":".--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:49, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, this wasn't quite what I was looking for. What I want is for the "1861 c. 100." sidenote to be aligned with the rest of the sidenotes. ToxicPea (talk) 19:08, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

{{Outside L}} doesn't allow completely using {{left sidenote}}, which it uses, so I tried using directly {{left sidenote}} with the style parameter. Is that result what you wanted? — Alien  3
3 3 19:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333: Unfortunately this solution is not transcluded well into the mainspace for some reason :-( --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Because {{Outside L}} only uses {{left sidenote}} in pagespace, for some reason. Going to have to customize a bit, so that in mainspace it uses the other template, {{outside}}, also the right way. — Alien  3
3 3 19:21, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is exactly what I wanted, though I wish it worked in the mainspace as well. ToxicPea (talk) 19:50, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@ToxicPea, @Alien333 I have tried something with Template:Dent. Feel free to adjust the indentations as you see fit. Overall, I don't trust the ":" indentation, as I have had issues with right sidenotes as well (in poems), where it doesn't overfloat right correctly (and so {{em}}, or an actual template, like dent, is safer). See User talk:Duckmather, em and pline section, if curious about the issue. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:57, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

perfect ToxicPea (talk) 19:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm curious about what you mentioned in poems. Were you using {{ppoem}} or not? as ppoem's ":" indentation is not the same, and should work as it's just a gap in the end. — Alien  3
3 3 20:05, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333 In the right overfloat case, <poem> tags had been used. I usually prefer ppoem, but the index (Index:Slavery, a poem.pdf) had already been started, so I stuck with <poem>. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:26, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Missing pages in scans and single work in two volumes

1. The scan source for The Story of My Experiments with Truth/Volume 1 is missing (at least) a couple pages. There is an alternative scan of the same edition available on TIA that contains the missing pages (but is missing others smh). What is the process for inserting those missing pages to have them proofread and ultimately transcluded?

2. The Story of My Experiments with Truth is two separate volumes (you can see the parking page I created just now at that page), but the second volume is not yet PD (for 2 more months). How should I handle the page for the overall work vs just the first volume? Thanks! Qx3Jw (talk) 00:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

In regard to (1), I've created a fixed pdf combining the missing pages from the alternative scan and removing duplicated pages. Where should I upload this new pdf and can I easily change the Index page to point to the new scan?

And for (2), I think I have it mostly figured out. I took a look at some other works with multiple volumes, particularly The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift, but any comments greatly appreciated! Qx3Jw (talk) 03:39, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

1. As that file is PD both in the US and in India, you should upload it at Wikimedia Commons. Making the index match it will probably need an intervention, because pages have been created after the missing pages and placeholders have not been inserted, so it needs a mass move of pages. You should ask at Wikisource:Scan Lab.

2. For multi-volume works, most of the time, as here, the work itself does not contain a listing of the volumes, so that listing, which we need, should be wrapped in an {{AuxTOC}}. — Alien  3
3 3 09:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Is there a bot or script to help with a W e i r d OCR error in a text I am working on?

The Chronicles of Early Melbourne has a bizarre recurrent OCR error whereby words - particularly at the start of sentences and beginning with wider letters such as m and w are OCR'd with a space between each letter. This is surprisingly time consuming to correct but feels like something that would be particularly amenable to an automated solution. Has anyone encountered this problem before, and is there an automated method of correcting it, please? Thank you. CharlesSpencer (talk) 11:05, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@CharlesSpencer: You can try to get a different OCR of the page by clicking the "transcribe text" button (on the right). You can choose from three OCR tools (Tesseract, Google, Transkribus), so you can try which of them works best for the particual page. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:25, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Jan.Kamenicek - let me give that a try... CharlesSpencer (talk) 11:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you indeed, @Jan.Kamenicek - Google OCR shows no such behaviour - so problem solved at a single blow! Thank you. CharlesSpencer (talk) 11:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)