Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022

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Help with Greek footnotes in "Hero and Leander"

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Would anyone with knowledge in Ancient Greek be willing to proofread a few footnotes in Index:Hero and Leander - Marlowe and Chapman (1821).pdf? The specific pages are marked as problematic. There is also one footnote (p. 102) referring to a "Vid. Pausan." (or something like that; perhaps "Pausanias"?) which is nearly illegible; would anyone be able to check that text as well? Shells-shells (talk) 19:43, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Page in question: Page:Hero and Leander - Marlowe and Chapman (1821).pdf/182. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Some of the footnotes are now proofread. Not sure about the Pausanias quote. Tylopous (talk) 10:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Formatting of Fragment of Novel Written by Jane Austen

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hello,

When proofreading a Fragment of a Novel written by Jane Austen, the notes (1-34 or .pdf/191-.pdf/224) in said text refer to changes at specific line numbers of the original text (pages 1-170 or .pdf/19-.pdf/188).

However, when the main text has been proofread, on almost all the pages, the lines have not been converted to paragraphs (which I think is good in this case), but line breaks have not been included after each line. Thus, the text appears on wikisource as single "blobs" for each chapter (which aren't very pretty), which completely destroys all line number information. Would it be possible for a bot to be automated to add line breaks at the end of every line of the aforementioned pages of the main text (but not preface or notes), and possibly add block center or something similar to each of the pages as well? Note that I am not very familiar with what bots can/cannot do, so hopefully this is not a foolish request. Note also that any pages that haven't been left as line by line in proofreading (which may confuse a bot automated in this manner) I can add the line breaks to manually. I also hope this is not against some Wikisource policy, which usually isn't aimed at having the transcluded text appear exactly as in the original.

Thanks for any education/assistance, —unsigned comment by TeysaKarlov (talk) .

@TeysaKarlov: The original text is in running prose which should be unwrapped. The lack of paragraph breaks is also a feature of the original, and while I personally disagree with this choice it is still how it was published. However, in order to make the notes navigable for readers the straightforward approach is adding links.

You can use something like {{anchor+|p1l4|being induced by Business to quit the high road, & attempt a very rough Lane, were overturned}} to create a link target in the text, and then link to it from the notes using something like [[Fragment of a Novel Written by Jane Austen/Chapter 1#p1l4|4.]].

Regarding block centering, that is something we usually handle at transclusion, and typically by using the dynamic layout system; in practice by adding {{default layout|Layout 2}} to the page where the text is transcluded (e.g. just after the {{header}} template on Fragment of a Novel Written by Jane Austen/Chapter 1, and repeat for the main page and all sub-pages). There are some contributors that are vehemently opposed to that layout, so it's not the default for all works, but I generally recommend adding it routinely to every work unless there is a specific reason to use a different layout. --Xover (talk) 09:59, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Thanks for the response. While straightforward, that sounds very time consuming, given the number of notes (I was working on said text just to get the proofreading finished, as I dislike it when texts are left almost complete). I hope you are not too dissatisfied with this comment, given the above request for help, and likely lack of any further action on the text on my part. I was just hoping for a simpler solution. At any rate, I will keep the linking approach in mind for any similar texts I might end up proofreading in future, when I can add said anchors and links while working, rather than after the fact.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:59, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: It would certainly be both tedious and time-consuming, and I wouldn't dream of being dissatisfied that someone didn't want to take on such a task! We are all volunteers and work on what pleases the author of our own story. Links and other such affordances are strictly optional, so as long as the actual text of the notes has been proofread you can call yourself done with the best of consciences. If someone cares enough about the work to take on the tedious bits, such links can perfectly well be added after the fact and anyone is free to do so. Xover (talk) 20:14, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Executive_Order_6102#pageindex_2

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Section 8 title is a different font size.

Have the pre/post split versions of {{Section-eom}} become desynced with the parent template? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Advanced settings of the new Tessaract OCR must be set for each page?

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments4 people in discussion

Is there a way I could change and set the language setting permanently, instead of each page? Ineuw (talk) 00:29, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: Unfortunately not. The wish for a fully integral OCR tool was among the five winning 2020 wishes, and the fact that you have to set language setting for each page again and again is the result of TechTeams decision to ignore the wish and create another external tool instead. There is no hope to reverse their decision, see meta:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2020/Results#Current status. (Overall, their original promise to fulfill at least five 2020 wishes finished sadly.) Some discussion about improving the language setting has been held at phab:T279405, but not with much progress. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 01:06, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Much much thanks. It sort of validates my concerns that I am not alone. Out of curiosity, I will check what they did at French Wikisource.

Ten years ago, being ignorant of OCR, I raised this issue in the Internet Archive Forum, when I started editing on French Wikipedia. The French text layer was accurately and cleanly scanned +90% of the time, which included the standard 26 characters. It is then I found out that there are different software for languages scanned. My next question, was why bother with an English version? English text was always interspersed with text from other languages of the Latin family, but the basic 26 characters were the same. I am still waiting for a response. Ineuw (talk) 01:32, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

A quick check shows it's French. How difficult is it filter through the French Wikisource's Tesseract setup?Ineuw (talk) 01:35, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

The trick is the langs[]=fr in the URL. This is hard-coded to the Wiki language by default (the rationale given in the results link above is that's usually sufficient, but 1) that's completely wrong for mulWS, 2) doesn't account for, say, Old English and 3) I think they just ran out of time rather than intentionally failed to implement the setting).

You could change the link with JS I guess. Or, another workaround, just keep the OCR tool page open and change the pageXX in the image URL. Or generate the text at the frWS Page NS page (or whichever WS) and copy it to enWS. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 02:01, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

For why each language needs its own OCR, I have a record on the wall with an o with a mark over it. The mark looks like a macron; ō is rare, with the major users in normal writing being Hawaiian and Māori, with more use probably in pedagogical Latin. If it's English, it's probably o with flyspeck, i.e. just o. If it's French or Spanish or many other languages, it's o with accent or grave. If it's Estonian it's either ö or õ (o with tilde). As it's German, it's obviously ö. Good OCR can also look at bigrams and trigrams; th is way more likely in English than tb, and a poorly printed three-letter word ending in nd in English is end or and, not und. Setting it to something that's not English would probably increase the error rate by quite a bit.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:13, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Well, that's what happens when you burn all your time on completely nonsensical new UI widgets before getting the Minium Viable Product nailed down. Basic project management, but that's not cool enough, I guess. What should have happened was a simple dialog or menu and iterate later, if there was time.

I had planned to integrate this myself when it became obvious it wouldn't get done on time (nothing like doing homework for other people, just like back at school, eh?), but none of the prerequisite patches (i.e. the OCR crop tool work, which contains various useful config aspects) are merged. I no longer have time to deal with it any more since I have used up all my Covid time rebasing patches again and again instead of doing anything useful, and now I have to go back to the day job. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 01:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload That is why I don't disturb you anymore. I realized some time ago that you have nothing to do with it. One problem is that I find that wmf developers do very little proofreading if any to experience some the difficulties with the editing process. In any case, because the fate of general existence is not determined by our efforts, we are not at the top of the list of important consideration. Although we could promote ourselves to increase editorship with the following banner.

* * * Fight Covid, Isolate with Wikisource * * *

Ineuw (talk) 03:41, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Are the editing page status buttons locked?

Latest comment: 2 years ago15 comments4 people in discussion

Yesterday, I had been editing this work: Index:Collected poems of Rupert Brooke.djvu. As of today, I can still edit anything and save, but the Page Status buttons in the edit window are non-clickable. I randomly tried other works, and it's the same thing. I can edit, but i can't click the status buttons. Also the "Editing help" link in the edit screen is not clickable today. I'm not having issues on other wikis. Are we under maintenance, or is it something with my account? Please advise. Maile66 (talk) 11:34, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66: I am not experiencing either problem. Sounds like a browser issue to me. :/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:09, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Koavf, @C: Not browser related. I get the same thing on Edge, Chrome and Firefox. Is it my account? Maile66 (talk) 12:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66: Super-weird. I don't think your account could be prohibited from clicking on Help:Editing. Have you recently changed your CSS or JavaScript? Which skin are you using? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:23, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Koavf, @C: Monobook skin. Haven't changed CSS of Javascript or anything else since yesterday. And its only happening here. And it's only the Page Status buttons and the Editng Help link. Maile66 (talk) 12:27, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: In trying to reproduce this problem, I found that when I zoom the page a couple of clicks (in-browser zoom) the Page status link next to the radio buttons became unresponsive (no link cursor, nothing happens when clicked); and when asking Safari to "Inspect element" on it, it selects <div class="prp-page-image-openseadragon-vertical" id="prp-page-image-openseadragon-vertical"></div>. I could not get the radio buttons to become unresponsive. Tested in Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. Could the OSD element be stretching outside the div.prp-page-image? A z-index issue perhaps? Or could it somehow be related to showing disabled versions of these to non-logged-in users?

@Maile66: What web browser are you using? Xover (talk) 12:28, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: You nailed it. It's the zoom that does it. On the the other hand, I have to zoom down to such small size (for my vision) that it's too difficult to view and too much trouble to try and edit that way. Since this just happened today, I wonder if there is a general fix. Something must have happened to make this sudden snag. I don't currently have this issue on Commons or English Wikipedia. Maile66 (talk) 12:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66: Several changes that could plausibly be the cause of this landed yesterday with the normal MediaWiki release train. Inductiveload is somewhat familiar with at least two of them, so I'm hoping they'll have a better idea where to dig further. And to be clear, this is definitely a bug that should be fixed; it's just a question of how long it'll take to track down and how hard it'll be to fix. Xover (talk) 12:50, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover So, I tried changing skins to Modern, which I use on English Wikipedia without problems. That solved part of the issue, with the status buttons, but the the Editing Help link remained unclickable, no matter the zoom. Whatever this is, it's only Wikisource, I guess. I think I'll stay with Monobook, in hopes that MediaWiki figures it out. Real bummer here. Maile66 (talk) 13:20, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't know what would have changed there (and the show buttons for IPs thing shouldn't affect logged in users).

It works for me in Firefox and Chromium (though zoom is completely broken anyway in side-by-side mode which will need an emergency fix: phab:T298694). In particular .prp-page-image-openseadragon-vertical doesn't appear to extend outside the viewer area (not any of its children). Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:43, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: No, it's misplaced. It's positioned after the page image, but sized identical to the page image, so it sticks down and covers the entire right side of the page content below it (including the "Page status" link; but the edit summary field and radio buttons appear to be z-indexed in front of it for some reason). $("#prp-page-image-openseadragon-vertical").css("border", "1px solid red") reveals it. $("#prp-page-image-openseadragon-vertical").css("position", "absolute", "top", "0") drops it back into place. I'm guessing this is a side effect of the $imgContHorizontal.add(…) thing. Maybe it's bombing before OSD gets initialized so its container doesn't get the positioning it's supposed to? Or maybe it's assuming the original page image will get replaced, so what's happening is that the original image is pushing it down? Xover (talk) 14:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Strange, I don't see that: phab:F34909444. Perhaps it's a JS ordering thing with the exception thrown in phab:T298694(?) Does the patchdemo work for you? Inductiveload—talk/contribs 16:41, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: Strange, yes. It was consistent across Safari/Firefox/Chrome, and both logged in and not. It seems almost certain, now, to be a side effect of the exception from T298694, but I still don't get how it doesn't show up like that in your Firefox. None of the patchdemos related to T298694 show this behaviour. Xover (talk) 20:05, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66: Thanks to the always awesome tpt, and the no less awesome Inductiveload, there's now been an emergency deployment of a fix for this (so a big thanks to WMF's RelEng guys as well!). My testing indicates it's fixed the problem, but the symptoms you observed were slightly different than the ones I found, so I would appreciate it if you could test and verify that this indeed solves the issue for you. Xover (talk) 12:37, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Done - Works for me now. Thanks. Maile66 (talk) 12:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Download OpenSeadragon Image

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

I'm trying to download the original map of Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 2).djvu/107 found on [1]. However, it's a tiled image in OpenSeadragon format. Can anyone help me with this? Languageseeker (talk) 02:55, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

Not to hijack this question too severly, but out of curiosity, were you planning to do all of the single (3 remaining) and double page (2 remaining) images, assuming this issue can be worked out? Also in regard to Historic Highways, some of the pages are rotated 90 degrees. Is it safe to assume that a) these should be included the right way up given wikisource is not beholden to page widths? and b) that the OCR can't help me and that I have to type these out manually (or is there a way to rotate the page and then have wikisource transcribe the text)?

Otherwise, sorry that I don't know how to help with the second double page image, but at the very least, the first one looked great.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 05:01, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov Great to hear from you. I didn't really do much for the first map, I just found a high-resolution scan of the original map from the NYPL and uploaded it to Commons. I really don't think it makes much sense to spend hours trying to clean up a scan of a photo of a map. I don't really have any plans for the rest as I'm busy irl for a little while. Happy New Years! Languageseeker (talk) 12:47, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: This image is actually in the IIIF file format; OpenSeadragon is a web viewer for IIIF images and other, similarly zoomable image formats. I've used dezoomify―available as a GUI on the website or as a command-line tool—to grab IIIF files in the past, which has worked well so far: it will download each tile and stitch them all together into whatever output format you like. Without knowing your level of technical skill, I'm not sure if the tool will be readily usable and intuitive or not; however, the Github FAQ serves as a good starting guide.

That said, this case is slightly more complex, as the website you are trying to download from is blocking the JSON file containing IIIF file metadata from being accessed from the outside. It is therefore necessary to spoof the referer information so that dezoomify can download the file; this can be easily done on the command-line (and on the website—information is available on the Github page). Long-winded explanation short, the image can be downloaded (on Windows) using the command-line version with the following command: dezoomify-rs.exe --header "Referer: https://wrhs.saas.dgicloud.com/islandora/object/wrhs%3A24587" https://wrhs.saas.dgicloud.com/iiif/2/wrhs%3A24587%7EJP2%7E1e0b7c545049b8b5b49bd1037dc0f29f327631f10cbb38c593e4ce659006abbd%7Edefault/info.json

P.S. Thank you for introducing me to a new collection of high-quality scanned images. I used to browse the Prints and Photographs site of the Library of Congress for hours upon hours, and I still find these massive hoards of public domain, high-quality pictures to be immensely interesting. Shells-shells (talk) 07:34, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells Thank you so much! That worked beautifully. Languageseeker (talk) 02:09, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Happy to be of assistance :) Shells-shells (talk) 03:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Transclusion with <pages /> introduces paragraph breaks

Latest comment: 2 years ago14 comments3 people in discussion

I've noticed that transcluding like so

<pages index="file name.djvu" from=x to=y />
<pages index="file name.djvu" from=z to=w />

now introduces a paragraph break between page y and page z, whereas doing the same thing with {{page}} does not. This diff is one example of that. Is this intended behavior? Also, does anyone have suggestions on transcluding the linked work with <pages />? Thanks. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:18, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I wonder if not ending the page with the section end would work. The &ltsection /> tags are already "tidy" and complete and do not need to be in pairs. Another way of stating that is that the "tosection" in <pages /> looks for <section end="something" /> and "fromsection" looks for the begin tag. So your example without the closing end tag on the first page and the opening begin tag on the second page would be:

<pages index="file name.djvu" from=1 to=2 fromsection="p1" tosection="p2" />

I can do that page for you if you want (and maybe to see for myself as well). I just recently learned that they don't need the "tidy sectioning" that I had been doing. Only when isolating a section from the center of a block of text.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 21:56, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: Each invocation of <pages … /> is wrapped in a HTML <div class="prp-pages-output">…</div> so you will always get vertical whitespace between them (you could custom-style it away, but that'd be a hack). The correct solution is to use <pages index="file.djvu" include="x-y, z-w" />, but for the Fanny Hill example (which is a pathological case) the only viable approach I see is to fix the source scan (put the pages in order and stuff them into a DjVu; you can request that at WS:LAB). Xover (talk) 09:12, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thank you, that makes sense! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 00:21, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

I've now fixed Letter from Fanny Cook to Catherine Munday, 3 November 1875. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:02, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Follow-up question to this: is there a way to search for works which have multiple invocations of <pages … /> either on the same line or on consecutive lines? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 19:09, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: Nothing user-facing that I am aware of. But I can probably run a bot job to find them. Do you have any pages currently containing this to test the search pattern against? Xover (talk) 09:33, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover I'm not specifically aware of any real instances, but I do have some examples at User:CalendulaAsteraceae/Drafts. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 17:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: See if this is what you're after? Xover (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover That looks great; thank you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 20:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

It was generated with a regex search against all mainspace pages. If needed I can tweak the regex to include or exclude more cases. Xover (talk) 20:16, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: I have noticed there are false positives of works which have multiple lines separating the invocations of <pages … />, such as Bible (King James Version, 1611)/Genesis, as opposed to works like Amazing Stories/Volume 01/Off On a Comet, where the current transclusion method introduces a line break before the last page which shouldn't be there. If you could tweak the search to exclude the former cases, I'd appreciate it! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:43, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: I have updated User:Xover/Cramped transclusions with pages that contain a single literal newline character between two instances of a pages tag. That reduced the list by about a thousand pages (iirc). Xover (talk) 09:20, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 09:21, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Parish Registers

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I’m wondering if Wikisource would be an appropriate place to transcribe parish registers (births, deaths, marriages). In particular I’m thinking about Irish Catholic Parish Registers, since I’ve been looking at them at lot lately. These registers were microfilmed over 20 years from the 1950s and those films were digitised from 2010. The images are available from the National Library of Ireland under a fairly free licence (requires linking the licence/source attribution) in which they are called “NonCopyright Material”. On the NLI site these images are minimally indexed (Event type, Year, Month), but no other text is available. The LDS indexed the microfilms on the names included, and these indexes have been absorbed by other for-profit sites, like Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, these indexes contain many mistakes, because the source material is sometimes very hard to read and interpret, being written (to a varying extent) in a kind of Latin. E.g. a relative called Kieran appeared in the register as Kyranum Joannis Shea… (“Kieran [son] of John Shea”), but in the indexes as O’Byranum Shea.

So, people researching either:

include incorrect information
correct the proprietary indexes (i.e. work for Ancestry for free)
go back to the source images and just correct their personal information

Time after time, researchers go back to these records, compiling their own lists, making their own interpretations & seeking advice on forums about interpreting them. It seems like an area that is calling out for a collaborative project.

So, I suppose I have two questions really:

is this an appropriate place for such a project?
which language project would it belong in?

While technically Latin, the usage becomes more and more limited over time and varies widely between clerks. Often it’s abbreviated anyway (B. = Baptisavi “I baptised”; f = filius/filia “son/daughter”; Spr = sponsores/sponsoribus “godparents”). Months & days are in Latin sometimes, other times (esp. later) in English. The most consistent is the weird Latinisation of names. —Moilleadóir (talk) 03:39, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't know whether English, Latin or multilingual Wikisource would be the best place for this, but I do think this project is appropriate for Wikisource. List of Carthusians, 1800–1879 is a similar work which is hosted on Wikisource. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:23, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Spacing before/after tables

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Hello,

I was wondering if, after creating a table, there is a way to avoid the line break that is seemingly forced after (and before) it? I refer to the ToC pages (djvu/64 and djvu/67) of Ovid's Metamorphoses and page vi (djvu/10) of Sand and Foam (both Monthly Challenge works). In both cases, I was using tables to either get a drop initial to work with a table of contents, or to get images beside some text. Maybe there are better ways to do either/both of these things. However, if the way I approached these tables was sensible, they would look so much nicer without the forced line breaks. Alternately for the Sand and Foam case, is there a table class (with) "_ruled_rows", like there is for "_ruled_cols" as that also could work if the line breaks can't be removed?

Thanks,

Hello. I tried adding margin:bottom=0. Is it what you wanted to achieve? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 23:20, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for the help. It is much improved for the ToC cases, although not exactly perfect (I am probably being pedantic at this point, but who can say). Note that I have the "margin:1 em" part to force the table to the center. I don't know why it does this, but whenever I have a table that won't center, it seems to work. It also seems if I set margin-right:0, the table stops centering, so I am evidently not free to change all the margins, but can change the bottom one. If you happen to know another way to force the table to the center, with zero margin, I would much appreciate knowing it. In general, I would also like to know if there is a way to create a "zero line space", as it just seems like a handy thing to be able to do. However, maybe it is something like dtpl (see above post if curious), and that no simple way is provided, because it is just something that shouldn't be done.

Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:33, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: You can set the line-height too. The default is line-height:140% (I think), so if you set it to e.g. line-height:120%, the space between lines will be smaller. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:01, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Is this better? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:16, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: That is much better. Thanks for all the help, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:15, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Weird blockquote formatting

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments4 people in discussion

Could someone please take a look at the long quotation in Page:The Federalist, on the new Constitution.djvu/27 which has a formatting style that I've never seen before? In addition to the familiar direct quotation style of using quotation marks, every line of the quotation is additionally set off by quotation marks. Thus instead of this:

"a long quotation

that runs across

several lines"

they have done this:

"a long quotation

"that runs across

"several lines"

I'm not sure whether to preserve that or remove it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:32, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing: I am pretty sure the tradition here is to preserve it. They even prefer to maintain obvious print errors, so even more so this archaic formatting convention.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 19:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

We typically modernize that kind of thing. That is a typesetting technique that is incompatible with electronic format where we do not set the markings and line returns. If you preserve that, you'd have to preserve the line returns for it to make sense, and we typically don't preserve line returns in prose. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:28, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Does anyone want to be the tie-breaker here? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:02, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing: You should remove them. While Wikisource keeps most original formatting (and errors), line breaks are an exception. Thus, the quotation marks (which are dependent on line breaks) should be removed. See, e.g., this page and this page. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:18, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you all. That page is now Validated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:30, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Minor (?) Table Trouble

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I've recently working on the transcription of Theft Act 1968. While I applied some useful table styles created by Inductiveload successfully, there are still some problems when doing with the transcription:

On p. 26 of the index, there is a marginal note (1897 c. 30.) that should be reproduced at the left hand side. However, it seems that within tables, the outside templates for sidenotes aren't working actually for some reason. One can see how the sidenote of "Sch. 2" is in the created space within the {{Sidenotes begin}} and {{Sidenotes end}}, while that marginal note isn't.
Between p. 27 and p. 28, for the item of Road Traffic Act 1962, the sentence for that item span through these pages (In Part II . . .; and for paragraph<page break>26 there shall be . . . vehicles.”). As {{Nopt}} is only for creating separate rows that runs between pages, are there any templates that can fulfill such purpose?

Many thanks for your assistance.廣九直通車 (talk) 12:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

廣九直通車: For the second problem, no formatting is needed in the main part of the second page (notice my edit moving the preliminary material to the header). For the second problem, a manual override of the sidenote template is necessary—I’ve fixed the problem in Page:, but it may still break in Main, so look out for it. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:26, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- OK, many thanks! I think I've also encountered similar problems to the second one previously, I'll try it later.廣九直通車 (talk) 02:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Aux TOC not showing with green background

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

I'm trying to add the Chapters for Middlemarch using {{TOC row 1-2-1|class=wst-toc-aux||[[Middlemarch (1874)/Book 1/Chapter 1|Chapter 1]] {{Smaller|(not in original TOC)}}}} at Page:Middlemarch (Second Edition).djvu/9, but the green background is not showing. Languageseeker (talk) 05:31, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

What happens on transclusion? Some of these artefacts have a namespace affinity. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: Why would it? Xover (talk) 10:40, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker there was a missing class parameter for that specific template. It's added now. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 10:49, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload Thank you! Languageseeker (talk) 16:33, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Transcluding only one section

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm trying to transclude only one section using <pages index="Middlemarch (Second Edition).djvu" include="13" onlysection="s1" header=1/> on Middlemarch (1874)/Book 1, but it is transcluding the entire page instead. There are section labels in the Page ns. Can someone tell me what's wrong? Languageseeker (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Center template wasn't closed in the same section. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:13, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Stamlou: The ToC from Page:Middlemarch (Second Edition).djvu/9 has been "transcluded" into the Index form. So, if you want to edit the ToC that is seen on the Index page, editing that djvu page 9 will do that. I am guessing at the question you are asking. If I guessed wrong, sorry.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

@Stamlou No problem, if you have any other questions/need improved explanations with anything, just ask.

@Languageseeker While your praise is nice, in my case it is undeserved. I think I created about 3 pages in 700 or so... All the credit to @Stamlou for grinding through all those lengthy pages, and thanks @Tylopous for the transclusion.

P.S. For some reason I can't reply to anything but the main comment, so sorry if this appears out of place.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:44, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Stamlou As far as I can tell, @Languageseeker has already built all the links into the ToC.

For the actual parts of the TOC, this has been done with:

[[Page_to_be_created | Text_linking_to_page ]_ (their should be a second closing square bracket in the place of the symbol "_", but then it shows up as a link once I close the brackets, and I don't know how to stop this from happening).

So for book 2, for example:

Text_linking_to_page=OLD AND YOUNG

Page_to_be_created=Middlemarch (1874)/Book 2.

Admittedly this was a little odd, because a page for "Middlemarch (1874)" hadn't actually been created by anyone when this was done.

I have just rectified this, by creating a page for Middlemarch (1874) and then added the Middlemarch (1874) link to all the chapter pages thus far (this is done by editing Index:Middlemarch (Second Edition).djvu, in the same fashion, i.e.[[Page_to_be_created | Text_linking_to_page ]_, with Page_to_be_created=Middlemarch (1874) and Text_linking_to_page=Middlemarch: a Study of Provincial Life.

A similar approach has been used for the other chapters.

With the links all having been created, then it is just a matter of clicking on each of the links for chapters which haven't been built (either from the ToC, or from the newly created "Middlemarch (1874)" Wikisource page).

Clicking each link should open a new page.

When there, paste:

pages index="Middlemarch (Second Edition).djvu" from="XX" fromsection="s2 (if_appropriate)" to="YY" tosection="s1 (if_appropriate)" header=1/_ (their should be a closing "greater than sign" in place of "_",to match the opening "less than sign", but again, I don't seem to be show what to do without it actually trying to insert a page).

XX and YY are the start and end pages for said chapter (for Middlemarch, they are the actual page numbers+12, i.e. if you want to start at page 8, set XX=20).

Again, also not exactly sure what was being asked, but hopefully this is enough to transclude all the chapters of Middlemarch, assuming this was your ultimate goal. I also wasn't sure how much detail to go into, so sorry if there are any unnecessary explanations in the above.

I hope this helps, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:17, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much for all these details, I will study them more so as to understand better and learn to do it myself. Stamlou (talk) 14:42, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Stamlou and @TeysaKarlov An enormous thank you to both of you for your work on this book. It's truly amazing to have a scan-backed version of what many consider to be the greatest Victorian novel. Outstanding work. :) Languageseeker (talk) 16:01, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Please rename three files

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hello!

Please rename these files:

File:Jhering fancy I.PNG → File:Jhering fancy I.jpg
Rationale: The MIME (image/jpeg) doesn't correspond to the file extension (.PNG)
File:Jhering fancy T.PNG → File:Jhering fancy T.jpg
Rationale: The MIME (image/jpeg) doesn't correspond to the file extension (.PNG)
File:Page79-2038px-The Amazing Emperor Heliogabalus.djvu.jpg → File:Page79-2038px-The Amazing Emperor Heliogabalus.jpg
Rationale: Per c:COM:FR#FR6: Double extension.

Thanks! Jonteemil (talk) 16:52, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:08, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Orley Farm Contents+Illustrations Lists

Latest comment: 2 years ago14 comments4 people in discussion

Hello,

Something seems to be up with the Orley Farm contents pages, and list of illustrations, once they are transcluded. There are two <pages include=...> calls but only the first seems to be partially working, and if I remove the first, the second starts to work. However, in either case they only display one page of the list rather than two pages that they should. They are all at the end of Volume 10 in the Monthly Challenge work, and look fine page by page. I am not sure if they were originally working, and my swap to using {{dtpl... (to fix some other things) has caused an issue, or if they didn't work in the first place with a more conventional TOC. Could someone please help?

Thanks, —unsigned comment by TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:35, 4 January 2022 (UTC).

@TeysaKarlov: Orley Farm (Serial) is showing up in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded, so the issue is probably that you're running into MediaWiki transclusion limits because there are too many uses of {{dtpl}} on one page. I'm not sure what the best way to fix this is—possibly {{TOC row 1-dot-1}} would work better? Others might have more suggestions. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 22:47, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

{{dtpl}} is an entirely horrid template in terms of the sheer amount of markup it generates, as well as the terrible semantics of that markup. I would suggest never using it. If you must have the dots, the {{TOC begin}} dotted templates are lighter, and if that's still not working, scrap the dots entirely since they're basically impossible to represent in HTML without horrible hacks anyway (they're already carefully omitted from exports because they break just about every ereader in the world). Maybe one day, our descendents will see CSS dot leaders, but the proposal for that hasn't moved in 10 years. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 23:49, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: This is the output generated from one single invocation of {{dtpl}} (and I am deliberately not making this collapsible: this is one dtpl; if that makes your eyes bleed, just be thankful I didn't post all 40 of `em!):

You have 40 of these in that toc. Each page amounts to somewhere around 1MB of the gobbledygook above, and just two pages of toc ends up exceeding the hard limit in MediaWiki on expanded output from templates. Usually we see this kind of limit getting hit when we need to transclude something like 500–1000 entire pages with complex content (i.e. that inavoidably uses many templates).

I am personally of the strong and unwavering opinion that we should ~~kill it with fire~~ deprecate and delete this template, but until the community comes to its senses on that point I merely beg of you, and everyone else reading, please do not use this template! It is no good, very bad, kicks puppies, and snatches little old ladies purses. It is also so fragile and prone to breaking that even when it doesn't bomb out with a transclusion error, it just kinda sorta looks like it works when everything is at default settings. If you try to combine it with any number of other formatting it'll promptly fall over. And that's because it is trying to fake dot leaders in a medium that is actively antithetical to the very concept. It is never going to work well, and we will eventually have to remove (replace) every single instance of its use (hopefully with native CSS dot leaders, but that's a decade or more down the road). In the mean time we really really shouldn't be adding to the heaping pile of these that we already have. Pretty please? --Xover (talk) 17:43, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

PS. For comparison, this is the output from the {{TOC row 2dot-1}} that was originally used on that page:

And here is the output for doing the same with simple table markup:

<tr> <td style="text-align:right;">I.</td> <td style="font-variant:small-caps;">—the commencement of the great orley farm case</td> <td style="text-align:right;">1 </td></tr>

I am really rather a fan of the latter option. :) --Xover (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

@Xover Thank you for the comments, and thank you for only printing one dtpl! While I enjoyed your humour, and the pretty please, all I really needed was the "never use dtpl" statement. I never realised it was an issue, as nowhere in its documentation did I see any indication that it was a problem. It just seemed like a template with a whole bunch of options, which is what I usually like in a template, for the sake of more accurate replication of the original. I will switch to using TOC henceforth, so that less need be replaced in future (and fix Orley Farm). I also have no idea what CSS dot leaders are, but if it helps the cause, I will hope for them too.

Also thanks @CalendulaAsteraceae and @Inductiveload for your earlier (and reasonably lengthed) comments, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:35, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: Yeah, that's why I pester people with these rants whenever they give me an opening: dtpl looks awesome at the surface, and it hasn't been officially deprecated, so there's absolutely no indication to most users of what lurks in its innards. Eventually I'll persuade enough people of its horrors that we can get it deprecated. Some day. Maybe.

PS. "CSS dot leaders" means native support for dotted tables of contents in web browsers. There's a draft standard for it, but no browser implements it and it hasn't had any updates in years. If and when that happens, all of the technical mumbo jumbo above would be reduced to something akin to "dot-leader: on". Xover (talk) 21:12, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover I realise it has been a little while, but I was curious if you had any ideas about how to deal with the table on p.168 of On the economy of machinery and manufactures, without using dtpl. You will see on p.166 and 167 that I used dtpl to get the desired response (edits made on 23 December, i.e. before the above discussion). I was hoping to use multiple TOC's so that I can still have the "dotend" text look right (for the rows that have words underneath any rows and keep dots above them). Usually I see other people just leave blank space (rather than dots) above "dotend" text when using a conventional TOC. Is there a way to avoid this without dtpl? I was hoping to use two TOC's, but "TOC end" automatically creates a new line no matter where I put "TOC begin", i.e. their seems to be an unavoidable vertical space between the two tables. I have also tried various row settings, e.g. 2dot-1 and 2dot-1-1 in the same table, but this also doesn't seem to help. Maybe I am being pedantic, but I often seem to run into "unavoidable vertical space" issues, and I dearly wish to be able to avoid them...

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:07, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Never mind the above. As is often the way when asking questions, I figured out the answer myself shortly after. You see, I sensibly tried, "|style = margin-bottom:0" for the first TOC, but foolishly forgot that I also need "|style = margin-top:0" on the TOC I want immediately underneath, else its margin will force the space above. All good, and no dtpls needed! TeysaKarlov (talk) 00:01, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: I'm not sure I see the specific problem you refer to here, but glad you figured it out in any case. Yes, unavoidable vertical space is a perennial problem, and it's one that's somewhat inherent to the way the platform works. It's a combination of the (by design) simplification that comes of using a reduced vocabulary like wikimarkup to generate HTML and CSS (instead of writing HTML+CSS directly, with access to all their control and expressivity), and the need to have multiple levels of default styling for that HTML that interfere with page-local styling.

Let me also take the opportunity to mention that the use-case on these pages (multiple very short but very clearly tabular tables inline in text) is one where plain table wikimarkup (with {{ts}} as needed) really can shine. It gives you much closer to full control of the formatting, with a conceptual model that doesn't get in the way (much easier to understand what's going on), at the one-time cost of having to really learn the table syntax. Xover (talk) 13:54, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

While I am no great lover of dots, do note that all that CSS is deduplicated on the server, so it appears only once per table, rather than being repeated for each row and (for rows other than dots) means that there is less inline styling than usual for tables. So, for non-dotted tables, the total markup generated is probably in the same ballpark a manual table. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:59, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Also, and I know it's off-topic WRT dots, but <td style="font-variant:small-caps;">—the commencement of the great orley farm case</td> should rather be <td style="font-variant:all-small-caps;">—The commencement of the Great Orley Farm Case</td>. The small-caps casing is applied stylistically, you still need the actual casing to be "grammatical" so it continues to work when there's no small-caps support (e.g. plain text export, some e-readers and copy-pasting). If using, {{TOC begin}} provides asc for this. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 09:06, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

You horrible nitpicker you! :) That was just an example I threw together to illustrate the size difference of the output, and used sc instead of asc because I couldn't be arsed to check it properly. {{ts|asc}} spits out <td style="font-variant:all-small-caps;">…</td>, so this was just a case of GIGO. Even if you do still like the toc-template approach over the table-with-ts, like some degenerate… :) --Xover (talk) 09:30, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm just too lazy to remember to apply the right styles to every single cell (especially easy-to-overlook things like {{ts|vbm}} for the final cells). If that makes me degenerate, then call me neutronium and report me to Pauli for exclusion! ^_^ Inductiveload—talk/contribs 09:43, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Multipage footnote with table transcluded incorrectly

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

This footnote (96 in mainspace) in Capital is transcluded improperly. It spans the pages Page:Das Kapital (Moore, 1906).pdf/463 and Page:Das Kapital (Moore, 1906).pdf/464, and also includes a table; the text is being displayed in a monospaced block. Does anyone know why this is happening?

On a related note, what is the best way to link to a specific footnote in mainspace? Shells-shells (talk) 21:30, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells: I have removed the {{nop}} and it seems to work now. I am not able to explain what was happening, I just suppose that {{nop}} does not work well inside refs. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:43, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Just did a quick test—it looks like the issue was caused (originally, before I added the {{nop}}) because there was a line break between the end of the table and the closing ref tag. Shells-shells (talk) 22:15, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Footnotes in Imperialism (Lenin)

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments4 people in discussion

Hello,

I have two questions regarding the wikisource guide on footnotes/endnotes, in particular the following lines:

"If the original work put the notes in a separate section, for example, collecting all footnotes for all chapters in one section at the back of the book, either:

Ignore the formatting of the original work and include all footnotes at the bottom of the section or chapter as described in the method above. [or the other option, which I chose not to do]."

Question 1: Having embedded each of the references, in the conventional manner (so that transcribed shall all be in the footer of the individual chapter), do I also proofread and transclude the Appendix (which is also listed on the table of contents) from which I sourced the references (currently I have marked the pages without text, but left the text in case I need it)? Or do I leave off all mention/pages of the Appendix in the transcluded work?

Question 2: One of the superscripts (67) is missing from the text. I am inclined to believe it should appear on page 87 (djvu/95) from context (i.e. the mention of the author/book in question), although technically it could be anywhere from p. 84 to 88 based on where superscipts 66 and 68 show up. What do I do about this? Do I reconstruct where I expect the superscript reference should be? Or something else? Furthermore, does this change how Question 1 might be answered?

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:32, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: I don't think there is an unequivocally right answer to this. When we run into such issues we handle them as best we can, so there may be multiple more-or-less suitable approaches that our more experienced contributors can come up with. I haven't run into this a lot myself so my experience with it is limited.

That being said, given the situation you describe (the missing footnote reference in particular), I think I would probably strongly consider going back to having the notes as endnotes in its own chapter (appendix), marked up such that they can be linked to, and inserting footnote links at the appropriate places in the main text. If you keep the actual notes inline you will have no good options for the missing note marker, in addition to the awkwardness of what to do about the pages of the appendix, but if preserved more or less as published the only downside will be that you also preserve the missing note marker from the original (much like a spelling mistake). This approach errs on the side of preserving the original work as published (for better or worse, they did publish it using endnotes instead of footnotes; and though presumably accidental, the same for the missing reference to note 67).

Alternately, if you can identify the intended position of the footnote marker with accuracy from a different edition of the work, I think the community would consider it acceptable to simply insert it there. Personally I wouldn't do that based on my own guesses, but if the placement was supported by external evidence like that I'd be fine with it. Xover (talk) 06:11, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Thanks for the response. I will see if anyone else responds before making major changes. Sadly, I highly doubt I can find another copy of the text. When looking for the images I couldn't even find where the version uploaded to Wikisource came from, let alone a different version. Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:33, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov I think that you're absolutely right that the footnote belongs on page 87. The most likely scenario is that the printer simply forgot it. I'm not entirely sure how the {{sic}} would work with a footnote, but this would probably the best way to mark this one. Languageseeker (talk) 21:41, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 and @Xover Thanks for the recommendations, and given no other comments, I have been attempting to use authority references. However, I am struggling to get them to work for references which cross multiple pages in the Appendix. For example, reference 13 crosses pages 154 and 155 (djvu/162 and /163). However, I am not sure how to put the section tags around this, or what to set page equal to (when calling the reference on p. 21, I have page set to 162, but it don't know how to call multiple pages, e.g. 162,163). My only idea is to "cheat" and move the text for reference 13 that appears on p. 155 manually onto p. 154 . This would then both look correct when transcluded in the Appendix, and in the appropriate footnote for Chapter 1. But I am not sure if this is "acceptable practice". Of course, there might be a simple solution that the authority reference will permit, I just don't know how to access/use it.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 02:36, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

P.S. For now, I have just moved the text from page 155 to 154, so that the work counts as proofread+transcluded in this month's challenge. If anyone wishes to fix this at a later date (assuming there is a fix) feel free. TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:22, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Imperialism, the Last/Highest Stage of Capitalism

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

Hello,

Not sure if this is the right place for this sort of a question, but anyway...

So, when working on Imperialism (Lenin) for the monthly challenge, which has the subtitle "the Last Stage of Capitalism", I was not aware that the text is very similar to a text (Imperialism) with subtitle "the Highest Stage of Capitalism" (prefaces aside, there seem to be only minor comments/wording/grammatical changes). I have just checked what has been done for "the Highest Stage of Capitalism", and it appears that not much has been completed, and that Wikisource may not have a scan (although I expect they would be easy enough to find, as I saw plenty when trying to find a scan for the Last Stage of Capitalism, which I couldn't, bar the one Wikisource has). Thus, I am curious if something should be done, i.e. a disambiguation page given that the books otherwise appear identical, or if the non-scan backed work needs a scan, or should be deleted, or removed from the list of works on Lenin's author page until things are fixed, etc. Any instruction on what to do in these situations in future would be appreciated (i.e. what to request, and where).

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:32, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov Looking at the Russian text, it appears that the text was first called Imperialism as the Newest Stage of Capitalism and later the Imperialism as the Highest Stage of Capitalism. I suppose that you can also use Last as a synonym for Newest so the two works are translated from the same base text, but might reflect different editions. The source for the other edition appears to be Lenin’s Selected Works, Progress Publishers, 1963, Moscow, Volume 1, pp. 667-766. Languageseeker (talk) 03:50, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

They are currently three different early translations of this work that I know of that have different subtitles:

The scan-backed version by Stephenson under the subtitle "Last Stage of Capitalism"
The 1924 translation by John Thadeus Kozlowski under the subtitle "Latest Stage in the Development of Capitalism"
The Tridon translation under the subtitle "the Final Stage of Capitalism" (external scan)

The subtitle "The Highest Stage" seems to have appeared with the 1933 edition in the Little Lenin Library. It is possible that it is a revision of the Stephenson edition given that it is likely coming from the UK and that version became widely known and reprinted spreading that title. MarkLSteadman (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@MarkLSteadman and @Languageseeker Thanks for the info. I was then about to ask whether the Highest Stage version on Wikisource should be deleted due to possible copyright issues, but it looks like you both are way ahead of me already... As I said elsewhere, what I saw of the Highest Stage version was exceedingly similar to the Last Stage version, so I would obviously vote delete in said discussion.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov Thanks for your effort on proofreading and driving this foreword. MarkLSteadman (talk) 22:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

File:220130 duplicate character in toolbar character map.jpg

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments4 people in discussion

Can someone double check if I am correct, please? The file Summary section ~~description~~ details the problem.Ineuw (talk) 10:36, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

I have got the characters in the toolbar map right, checking it in various browsers. Do you only see the buttons wrong or do they also produce the same character? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:25, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

They produce the same character.Ineuw (talk) 13:48, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

This is working for me: phab:F34936579. Are you sure you don't just have a font that doesn't have a visual difference between ã and ā. What font is it using? Inductiveload—talk/contribs 15:11, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

I also considered it to be the font. I use one font family everywhere, Noto Mono, Noto Serif and Noto Sans, and that's it. But I will examine everything step by step. I use Linux Mint and Firefox exclusively, and know where to check, and will test the same in Chrome and Vivaldi.Ineuw (talk) 02:48, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I get ã (a-tilde) for the left-hand character indicated in your image and ā (a-macron) for the right-hand one. Do these characters look the same here, as well as in the Character Map? They look different both here and in the Map for me. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:24, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: Thanks for the input, but it also depends on the system font, browser configuration and font selection. I switched to Google Chrome which defaulted to the Linux Mint system font of Ubuntu and Monospace Regular. In this case the characters were displayed properly.

Then, installed the Advanced fonts extension and set it to Noto Sans, Noto Serif, and Noto Mono, to conform with the Firefox font configuration and the character was misprinted again. The tilde was a macron over both. I inserted both characters on top of this page. It means that I must not Noto and switch to the defaults. Which brings me to the question. Is there a default font family in wmf software? Ineuw (talk) 03:57, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Changed from Noto to Liberation family, and everything is OK.Ineuw (talk) 04:52, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

flourished

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Can someone advice me how flourished for an author can be properly set to a range? (1893-1915 in this particular case) I have tried various combinations in Wikidata but failed. Which Wikidata properties should be used in order to properly display the period in the {{Author}} template? Ankry (talk) 18:08, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ankry: At a quick peek, this should be either floruit (P1317) with a date value of suitable precision (e.g. at the decade level), or work period (start) (P2031) and work period (end) (P2032) with year-level precision. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we've added support for the two latter properties in Module:Author yet so that will currently not display correctly on English Wikisource. Xover (talk) 15:09, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

OK. So my main mistake was that I thought that arbitrary ranges are supported in en.ws. I switched to the overriding parameter. Thanks. Ankry (talk) 17:33, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

16th-century orthography

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

The work Index:Diuers_voyages_touching_the_discouerie_of_America_-_Hakluyt_-_1582.djvu has peculiar orthography, because it is quite old. To what degree should this be changed when proofreading? Some examples:

Should Maiesties be transcribed as is, or as Majesties?
Should mooue vs be transcribed as is, or as moove us?Tylopous (talk) 08:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous: We reproduce the orthography as it was published. To modernise or make it consistent would be producing a new edition rather than reproduce the existing edition. Xover (talk) 08:25, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

(e/c) Keep it all as is. A version in modern orthography would come under the annotations policy, which requires the original version to be completed first. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:28, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thanks for the quick reply. This means less work for the transcriber.

(I asked also because I'd seen "I" changed to "J" in analagous situations somewhere.)Tylopous (talk) 08:30, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Copyright status of images within Index:The Seven Pillars of Wisdom.pdf

Latest comment: 2 years ago13 comments4 people in discussion

According to the Hirtle chart, The Seven Pillars of Wisdom is in the public domain in the US because it was published outside the US before 1927. However, files uploaded to Wikimedia Commons are required to also be free under the laws of the country of publication (the UK). According to the Commons page on UK copyright, the copyright term is {Life of author + 70 years}. The text is therefore in the public domain in the UK, Lawrence having died in 1935; some images in the book are as well. Many images are apparently not, however. Taking this site as a reference for the image creators (there is a table of all images in the text, with authors, starting at Page:The_Seven_Pillars_of_Wisdom.pdf/27, but it only lists last names), the works of John Cosmo Clark, Frank Dobson, Gertrude Hermes, Blair Hughes-Stanton, Augustus John, Eric Kennington, Henry Lamb, William Roberts, and Gilbert Spencer are all still under UK copyright. There are also two authors, R.M. Young and Slatter, about whom there is a general lack of information—I am not sure what the copyright status of their works is. See also this deletion request on Commons.

First of all, I want to make sure that my understanding of the copyright situation is accurate—I hope to be corrected if any of this is in error. More importantly, however, what should be done in this case? All of the work is presumably in the public domain in the US, so could some of it be taken off of Commons (to be reuploaded when copyright expires) and hosted provisionally on Wikisource? If not, should the images not transcribed due to copyright be marked in any particular way in the text? Does the entire file have to be deleted from Commons, or can the parts still under UK copyright be redacted with the remainder left intact? Shells-shells (talk) 02:43, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells The images should be uploaded here because enWS follows US copyright law. The images are in the PD in the US, but not in the UK. If you're planning on working on the images, could I ask that you use the original TIFFs from the LOC so that there will be highest possible quality? Languageseeker (talk) 02:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: Certainly I will use the the best quality images possible (though I don't know if I have expertise enough in image retouching to be of much use currently). With regard to images, can line drawings (for example, the large initial letters) be transcribed as SVG? Also, if the full pdf file is deleted from Commons, will that affect anything on the Wikisource side, or will it stay up in its current location?

Thank you for clearing up the copyright situation :) Shells-shells (talk) 03:06, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells I don't think anyone would object to the creation of SVG versions of the line drawings. That would be awesome, in my humble opinion. The file can be hosted here and I'll ask Inductiveload to do so. Languageseeker (talk) 03:34, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload Could you move this file to enWS? Many thanks! Languageseeker (talk) 03:34, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Not soon, so if anyone else wants to do it, please feel free. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 08:56, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells: Your copyright analysis appears correct. The correct course of action is to move any affected files here instead of hosting them on Commons, and at the same file name so that the index etc. will continue to work. Which I am currently in the process of…

Doing… Xover (talk) 13:19, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Meh. But it's going to take a while since MediaWiki is choking on this PDF for some reason. Xover (talk) 17:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells (CC Languageseeker): *sigh* This PDF breaks Mediawiki in all sorts of "interesting" ways. I've so far run into at least four different bugs that each prevent uploading it and I am despairing of finding a way around them at any point before the heat death of the universe. What I can offer is File:The Seven Pillars of Wisdom (1926).djvu, a DjVu I generated from the (~35GB worth of) TIFFs at the LoC. If you want I can move the Index: and Page: pages from the about-to-be-deleted PDF to the DjVu and you can keep working from that. I'll keep banging my head against the upload of the PDF, mainly because at least two of those bugs are likely to bite us for other files too, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Xover (talk) 22:50, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover It’s the revenge of the MediaWiki Bugs Part 1,3443,4433.4 (lol). Thank you for trying so hard. Replacing this file with the DJVU sounds like a good idea. Languageseeker (talk) 22:54, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker, @Shells-shells:

Done Xover (talk) 12:55, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover If possible, could you also migrate Index:The Worm Ouroboros - 1922.djvu to Wikisource? I think the same problem is present there—the book was published in London and the illustrator died in 1982, so it might rightly be deleted from Commons. Shells-shells (talk) 06:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells:

Done Xover (talk) 13:36, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Getting Full Color Images for a Google Book

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I've recently noticed that some Google books are available in full-color when viewing them, but download as the usual Google potato; see [2] Does anyone know if there's a way to get a PDF/DJVU of the full color images. Languageseeker (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: Finding a link to an individual raw image is easy, but as each URL is given a signature it seems like a heavy task to automate downloading all the images in a given work. E.g., see this URL to a single image:

https://books.google.com/books/content?id=7UIVAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA15&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&bul=1&sig=ACfU3U2seMlongO9_FMW3DvmVRF-dGxtcA&w=1025

All these parameters are fine, and can be found in the HTML source, except for sig=ACfU3U2seMlongO9_FMW3DvmVRF-dGxtcA—I don't know how one would generate that. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable than me could provide a better answer. Shells-shells (talk) 05:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Multiple Side Columns

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I have a situation with a notes section that has columns for both page and line numbers. I've done a hack with nesting {{hanging indent inherit}} like on this notes page, but it causes alignment problems. Is there a better way to do this? DoublePendulumAttractor (talk) 03:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@DoublePendulumAttractor: Use {{left sidenote}} for the page heading, and {{hi}} for the paragraphs. Xover (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

That seems to have done the trick. Thanks! DoublePendulumAttractor (talk) 22:29, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Two short Musical Scores

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Could somebody please add the musical scores to Page:The book of American negro poetry.djvu/16 and Page:The book of American negro poetry.djvu/20. Languageseeker (talk) 14:52, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Done. Now, you need another musician to validate them. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:24, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle Many thanks! Languageseeker (talk) 21:12, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Only 7 pages left to validate

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

If anyone feels like doing some validation, Index:The Science of Religion (1925).djvu (by a new contributor) only lacks 7 pages to be fully validated (and it's fairly easy text to validate). Xover (talk) 16:15, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Validated. Note only one change, I added a SIC on page XII of the preface. I never know if I should in these situations, so feel free to revert it back to the original if you think it best. Otherwise, happy to help another work become complete (even if it isn't in the MC), TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:49, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: Thank you!

On Page:The Science of Religion (1925).djvu/20 I would have probably just silently corrected it (in fact, that was probably what I did there), since it seems most likely to be a minor typesetting error, but adding {{SIC}} certainly isn't wrong. Often this is going to be a judgement call rather than a clear right—wrong issue. Xover (talk) 19:58, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Okay, I just wasn't sure if it was "frowned upon" to make any "silent corrections", it that's what we call them. Good to know that there is some leeway with this. Thanks,TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:04, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Combined Character (e with c below) needed

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments4 people in discussion

Does there exist a unicode combining character/any other method with which one can create a lowercase "e" with a small "c" below? Such a character is needed here: Page:Gospel_of_Saint_Matthew_in_West-Saxon.djvu/147.-- Tylopous (talk) 16:45, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks like a cedilla to me. ȩ Beeswaxcandle (talk) 16:54, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%98 ? MarkLSteadman (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your answers. But this better scan: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101071985368&view=1up&seq=150&skin=2021 shows that it must be a small letter c below (at least, that's what I think.)Tylopous (talk) 17:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous: w:E caudata Xover (talk) 17:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover, @MarkLSteadman:Yes, after reading the E Caudata article, I agree with you. The article says that this was in use in the British Isles around the time this translation was produced. Since this seems to be represented by an ogonek usually, I'll just do that. Many thanks. -- Tylopous (talk) 17:18, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

PDF pages not being displayed in proofreading mode

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments4 people in discussion

I'm having an issue with Mrs. Alec Tweedie - Through Finland in Carts (1897).pdf. The PDF pages don't display in the proofreading mode.

The issue started when I uploaded a new version of the file to Commons. The first version had an issue where some words on a page had been removed during the PDF optimization phase (which itself wouldn't have been a problem, because the file still displays perfectly in a normal PDF viewer, but apparently the proofread extension only displays images and not vectorized fonts which Adobe overlays on the page). Anyway, I re-created the PDF (with img2pdf), put it through OCR & lossless optimization (using OCRmyPDF, and uploaded the result (let's call it v2) to Commons. This is when this current problem started.

v2's pages weren't being displayed in the proofreading mode. In addition, I noticed that the file didn't have a thumbnail on Commons, just a placeholder icon (as can be seen on the Wikisource page of the current file). Commons also reported that the resolution of the PDF was 0x0; there's a Phabricator issue for this, but it's closed & resolved. Doing a purge and hard purge on the index or the file didn't fix the issue.

I theorized that the wiki software might not like PDF cover images that are in the JPEG 2000 format and that might affect things, so I recreated the PDF once again, this time with JPEG front and back covers. Now the PDF only contains JPEG and JBIG2 pages, no JP2 at all. Uploading this v3 version fixed the Commons thumbnail and 0x0 resolution. However, the file's Wikisource page still doesn't display a thumbnail and states the file's resolution is 0x0 (see the Dimensions column in File history section). Purging this page has no effect, and the proofreading issue still remains.

Does anyone have ideas on how to solve this problem? I'm done with creating new versions of the file for now, since I don't know what the root cause is. -- Veikk0.ma (talk) 10:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hm, the strange thing is that the thumbnail of the file displays well when viewed in Commons, but not when viewed in Wikisource. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Veikk0.ma: Well, it seems obvious that the PDF file contains something that makes the MediaWiki PDF stack fail somewhere. There's probably a caching issue too, since except for caching it is pretty unlikely that a file should fail on Wikisource if it's ok on Commons. The Phab task you link is unrelated to whatever this issue is. JPEG 2000 encoded image data in the PDF is probably going to fail because it's generally poorly supported (and it's pretty different, technically, from plain old JPEG). I would also be concerned about the mentioned "optimizations", given they seemingly took ~200MB of full colour image data at 1200 × 1800 pixel resolution and produced ~23MB of monochrome image data at 629 × 977. That is, for a 24:1 loss of colour information and 2:1 loss of image resolution, it achieved a 10:1 reduction in file size. Given file size is not a constrained resource in this context, I wonder what it is optimised for…

That being said, I grabbed the original scan images from IA and built a DjVu file from them: Index:Through Finland in Carts (1897).djvu. DjVu is designed specifically for our use case (which PDF really isn't) and as a side-effect MediaWiki actually tends to do a better job extracting the hidden text layer. I haven't checked it page-by-page, but from the superficial checks I could do the result looks to be functional. If you like we can move the existing pages over from the PDF and you can continue based on the DjVu. Xover (talk) 09:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thanks, but I'd rather use PDF and try to get the core issue resolved, since PDF is the universal format used for book scans worldwide and this could happen again in the future. DjVu is a niche format with basically no reader support and I'd rather produce a single file for Commons for multiple use cases rather than multiple files just to work around this one issue.

As for optimization, file size is always a constrained resource, and as I said, this file isn't just for use on Wikisource. Internet Archive's automatically created PDFs are pretty bad for multiple reasons and the only way I've found to produce a file that's both pleasant to read and doesn't have a ridiculous file size is to do the necessary conversion and optimization myself. This consists of using ScanTailor Universal to convert text pages to monochrome that's high enough resolution for a pleasant reading experience, and images to whatever color space required to store them. In this case there are only BW images and therefore grayscale is all that's required. I convert the images to JPEG and create a PDF from all the pages, and finally OCRmyPDF adds an OCR text layer (mainly for searchability; Wikisource's OCR tools work better for Wikisource use cases) and converts bitonal images to lossless JBIG2.

I'm not sure what you mean by DjVu being "designed specifically for our use case", since AFAIK PDF has been able to do the same things as DjVu for the last 20 years. It seems more likely to me that MediaWiki is designed around DjVu, probably for historical reasons.

Anyway, I assume I should report this issue to Phabricator. I'm not overly familiar with reporting issues there so I thought I'd ask if this was a known issue. -- Veikk0.ma (talk) 13:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I didn't say it couldn't do it, I said it's not designed to do it. PDF is an offshoot of PostScript and is designed for page layout. For born-digital documents it's great. For digitized books and manuscripts, not so much. MW isn't designed around DjVu, but DjVu is designed such that it is much easier to manipulate and extract text from than PDF is. There's a reason our backlog of broken PDF files is vastly larger than the same for DjVu. Xover (talk) 14:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Veikk0.ma: PDF is definitely much more widespread. For this reason I suggest keeping both PDF and DjVu scans in Commons and using the DjVu scan only for transcription purposes here in Wikisource. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Veikk0.ma: -- Your pdf is visible on Wikisource in my computer. So this is probably a cache issue, you can try a different browser. Hrishikes (talk) 16:45, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Template Help

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I'm trying to create a template to indicate joining characters used in manuscript. The idea is to display the character in the Page NS, but not in the Main NS. The template is {{MJe}}. It seems to work for most cases, but when the joining character is :, it does not display the character. Can someone help me out? Languageseeker (talk) 16:27, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: :, ;, *, and # are reserved characters (they are significant in wikimarkup), and our wonderfully quirky Parser treats these as list markup even if they're not at the beginning of a line (even though it insists on that in other contexts). The workaround is to insert a dummy <nowiki /> in front of it. Xover (talk) 16:54, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Good to know. Thank you for the fix. Languageseeker (talk) 00:37, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Rules of Procedures and Standing Orders

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I'd like to ask if standing orders and rules of procedures of legislatures (such as this Rules of Procedure of the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region published in 1998) falls under {{PD-EdictGov}}? I remembered that PD-EdictGov only covers those documents that are legally binding (eg. a bylaw will fall under such scope, but a speech by a government official won't), but are these kind of text to be considered so? Many thanks for your comments.廣九直通車 (talk) 12:50, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

@廣九直通車: The Edict of Government doctrine (embodied in {{PD-EdictGov}}) has been expanded to also include a test of whether a work is authored by a competent legislative assembly (regardless of whether the work itself would have any force of law). Without digging into it, I'd say standing orders and rules of procedures authored (at least notionally) by a legislative assembly are likely to fall within the scope of EdictGov. Xover (talk) 17:01, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thanks for your advice. For the Legco's RoP, I've uploaded to here as File:Rules of Procedure of the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (L.N. 265 of 1998).pdf, regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 04:38, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Help is asked for vector.css selector.

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I would like to increase the height of the image window in over/under editing. My User:Ineuw/vector.css has the following selector, but it's no longer working. Perhaps the selector name changed in the updated Proofreading module?

/* height of the djvu image window in the page namespace, edit view, over/under edit layout. 2019-08-11 */
.prp-page-image {
	min-height: 400px !important;
	max-height: 400px !important;
}

Ineuw (talk) 07:07, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Index:Winnie-the-Pooh (1961).pdf almost done! Last images needed

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments4 people in discussion

I proofread the last pages needing to be done that were part of the actual story. However, the cover image of Winnie the Pooh, and the first and last two image pages still need to be processed. Can someone please make an attempt at digitizing the images for Wikisource so that we can call this thing proofread finally and add it to New Texts? Thanks. PseudoSkull (talk) 13:39, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload Do you think that you can extract these images from the IA and upload them here? Internet Archive identifier: winniethepooh00aami Languageseeker (talk) 14:04, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull: If you are referring to the red cover, it is not uploadable. The URL of Internet Archive prevents the cover from being uploaded.Ineuw (talk) 16:32, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: Cannot what we already have in our WS PDF be cropped? Might not be the best quality, but good enough to call it a day. A higher quality version of the image could be uploaded in its place in the future if circumstances happen upon us well... PseudoSkull (talk) 00:03, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I will try and let you know. Ineuw (talk) 09:26, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull It's here. Ineuw (talk) 10:04, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I like a lot of the work here and I've done some myself, but I would please urge everyone to include alt text to all the graphics. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:26, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Format text with curved margin outlines

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

Is there any way to replicate text formatting as seen in, e.g., Page:The Seven Pillars of Wisdom (1926).djvu/32? That is, a centered, justified block of text with a curved margin on the lower half. The closest thing I could find is Template:Img_float#Polygon_shape_outlines, but it does not seem like a solution that would work here. Shells-shells (talk) 19:34, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

The second half of the third paragraph are centred lines (rather than a curved margin). However, this is just a printer's trick and I'm not convinced of the value in attempting to reproduce it with any degree of precision. I would leave it as three paragraphs, but would use {{block center}} with a constrained width. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:00, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells:, I formatted it as a poem, but the font and the size will not match the original's lengths. Ineuw (talk) 10:21, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells: You can use template:word-spacing to space out the words to get the desired effect

So they allowed it to begin, having obtained for
it formal assurances of help from the British
Government. Yet none the less the rebellion of the
Sherif of Mecca came to most as a surprise,
and found the Allies unready. It aroused
mixed feelings and made strong friends
and strong enemies, amid whose clashing
jealousies its affairs began
to miscarry.

<poem style="margin-left:auto; text-align:center; font-style:italic; margin-right:auto; width:auto;">
{{word-spacing|.5em|So they allowed it to begin, having obtained for}}
{{word-spacing|.7em|it formal assurances of help from the British}}
{{word-spacing|.3em|Government. Yet none the less the rebellion of the}}
{{word-spacing|.4em|Sherif of Mecca came to most as a surprise,}}
{{word-spacing|.6em|and found the Allies unready. It aroused}}
{{word-spacing|.45em|mixed feelings and made strong friends}}
and strong enemies, amid whose clashing
jealousies its affairs began
to miscarry.
</poem>

@User:Jpez Thanks! Languageseeker (talk) 22:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I was considering it but life is too short. Ineuw (talk) 23:32, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Index:1883 Annual Report of the German Society of the City of New York.djvu

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:1883_Annual_Report_of_the_German_Society_of_the_City_of_New_York.djvu/45

Have a look at the above page. The scan looks like a manual build, not a scan ... which would be OK, except that the info is not as complete as the page it scanned. Please advise. Thanks.Maile66 (talk) 20:02, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "The scan looks like a manual build, not a scan". Are you suggesting that someone did not use a scanner to create images of the page of a work but instead did something else to create a reproduction of the original report? That table is all wrong: its columns and rows need to be swapped and CSS should be used to rotate it. Ideally, there would be both versions of the table in the scan and a there would be a CSS rule that displays an upright table for the Web and a sideways one for print. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:36, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I was thinking someone manually did the table. But, given what you are saying about the table being all wrong, I'm glad I asked. I think I'll just move on to a different piece of work to verify. Thanks for answering. Maile66 (talk) 23:14, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Requesting a sample table

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Could somebody familiar with table formatting suggest a sample for the tables on this page? As you can see, I've used the formatting I know ({{dotted TOC line}}) for the first table on the page, but I'm sure there's a better way. An example would be very helpful. -Pete (talk) 17:36, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

In the end, I decided I was sufficiently familiar with table formatting to propose some suggestions. Note from other comments in this Scriptorium, that I am not necessarily sure what "Wikisource" prefers (in terms of formatting), although I expect that the answer to that is not to use dotted anythings. If you are okay with just having the text + numbers, I can add another example in that style, which would be the easiest way to go. Otherwise, its up to you which you format prefer, possibly based on effort required. Of course, feel free to modify column-width, dot-spacing, em|X parameters etc. to however you prefer; the only settings that I intentionally chose were the em|0.5, em|1's etc. so that the dollar signs all line up, as I find that em|0.5 is about the width of a single number. If you have any other questions about what I have done, feel free to ask.

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:52, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

@Peteforsyth, @TeysaKarlov: Another suggestion for a way of generating spaces about the width of one number is using the template {{0}}.--Tylopous (talk) 11:53, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Pagelist spacing errors

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T277267

See old and new pagelists. The intense spacing is very strange, and has started quite recently. Why does this happen? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:32, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

@TE(æ)A,ea.: It's a side-effect of T277267. I've reported the issue there (stealing your screenshots for illustration). --Xover (talk) 10:46, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Validation request: Index:Romeo and Juliet, a Comedy by Lopez de Vega. William Griffin, 1770.pdf

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Romeo and Juliet, a Comedy is Lope de Vega's Castelvines y Monteses, as rendered into English by an opinionated eighteenth-century translator who has never heard of "show, don't tell" and who makes remarks such as,

Romeo arrives; the two cavaliers retire for no reason whatever, except, because the poet pleases they should.

This work is 32 pages and fully-proofread, so if you're looking for a short validation project, like the idea of "Romeo and Juliet, but it's a comedy", and don't want to read an entire play, this is the work for you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:57, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

The text is validated barring a possible "que"/"quo" concern in the first line of the reference on p. 3. To me, it looks more like "quo", but I also don't know Spanish, and thus, whether "que" being typed was intentional. I saw no other errors on said page, so after that it should be all done.

Regards,TeysaKarlov (talk) 02:14, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! "Que" would make more sense in that sentence than "quo", but it does look more like "quo" now that I look closely. Possibly a misprint? In any case I've changed it to . —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:03, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

No problem. Glad another text is now complete! TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:31, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Quick template question

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

For the table on Page:Carnegie Flexner Report.djvu/133, how do I make the template display left-aligned text in the first column, and centered text on the rest of the columns? BD2412 T 07:43, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

@BD2412: Multiple possibilities, but the most sensible here is probably this: set a default center alignment on the table row, and then an explicit left alignment on the first column. You can also set it explicitly on every table cell, but that's tedious and messy. Xover (talk) 08:18, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Tedium doesn't dissuade me, as long as it works. BD2412 T 19:25, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Problem with transclusion of {{left margin}} across pages

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I've noticed that when transcluding two pages with {{left margin}} a paragraph break is inserted between the two pages, see for example Page:The Case of Charles Dexter Ward - Lovecraft - 1971.pdf/50. Is there a way to prevent this extraneous paragraph break from being added? Languageseeker (talk) 03:10, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: {{left margin}} encloses the content in a div; you can keep the paragraph together by using {{left margin/s}} and {{left margin/e}}, or {{blockquote/s}} and {{blockquote/e}}, so that the content is within a single block. I've gone ahead and edited pages 49–51 to use {{blockquote}}, since that seems more semantically appropriate in this case. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:26, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Indeed {{blockquote}} is the correct template here as it has the correct semantics. {{quote}} is also basically the same thing, and as correct.

If one did want to adjust the right margin, you can do so with index CSS like:

.wst-blockquote {
    margin-right: 0;
}

{{quote}} also had a direct CSS option, but IMO index CSS is better if you can for this kind of thing to maintain consistency in a work. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 20:52, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Help moving/renaming an article

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Greetings and felicitations. I'm a longtime editor of Wikipedia, but inexperienced here, and I can't find the answer to my question in the Help section. AFAICT What is to Be Done? needs its title corrected to What Is to Be Done? to conform to standard rules of capitalization, but unlike Wikipedia there is no Move button to click. How should I go about making this correction, if indeed it needs to be made? I would appreciate it if you would notify me when you reply (I assume that the User:Name function works the same here as on Wikipedia). —DocWatson42 (talk) 07:22, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

@DocWatson42: You haven't got quite enough edits here to have the move button become active. IIRC you need 50 edits. I see that PseudoSkull has moved it already, leaving a redirect at the other orthography. I note that there is possible COPYVIO problem and if you have more information that would help us resolve it, please contribute to the discussion at WS:COPYVIO#What is to Be Done? and Index:Lenin - What Is To Be Done - tr. Joe Fineberg (1929).pdf Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:43, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle:: Oh. Thank you. ^_^ (I guess my Wikipedia edits don't carry over for that.) As for the copyright violation, I looked at it just now, and I don't have anything to contribute. :-/ —DocWatson42 (talk) 08:53, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

How to create a box?

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

I need help with this page:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_Federalist_(1818).djvu/6

The L.S. in a box needs to be recreated. It seems to be a placemark for a seal, like this example that looks like ours and mentions a seal. I don't know how to create it. Who is a good coder? Please ping me. -- Valjean (talk) 20:20, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

@Valjean: If you want to preserve the pictorial elements of the box, then it would be best to use an image in a {{Dropinitial}} template. If you only want a simple box, then use {{Frame}} within a {{float left}}. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:19, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Beeswaxcandle, I don't know how to do the "float left" part. The frame makes a long box:

L. S.

Valjean (talk) 15:29, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

L.S.

@Valjean: Nest it inside the float left {{float left|{{frame|L.S.}}|1em}} so that it is constrained. The final 1em is to set the box off from the surrounding text. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:26, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much! That looks great. -- Valjean (talk) 20:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Index page help

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

How can I change the Vol. ii to Vol. iv in the following: Index:The history of the Norman conquest of England, its causes and its results Vol. ii.djvu thanks Daytrivia (talk)

@Daytrivia: An Index name here always matches the name of the file. So, to correct an Index name, the file needs to be moved on Commons to the correct name. Then we can move the Index here to match. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:37, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Hey, many thanks I'll work on that. I need to move it to the correct name on Commons. Thanks again. Daytrivia (talk) 10:24, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Index:The history of Witchcraft and demonology.djvu reference formatting

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments3 people in discussion

In proofreading the third chapter of this book myself, I followed the formatting for references used in the first two chapters. However, that formatting does not work. Notice the transcluded first chapter. There are large spaces covering the pages where the notes are, after which the notes follow. In addition, the numbers for the notes are doubled. I would assume a combination of {{ref}} and {{note}} would work more efficiently and accurately, but I am unaware if there is a better option or if there is a way to fix the problems with the existing method. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:20, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@TE(æ)A,ea. Thanks for your help with proofreading so far. I also followed the reference setup started by @Iain Bell, who can maybe provide a better response? As for the first chapter, I didn't transclude this as I wasn't finished with things, but the large white space is because line breaks are between the end of each reference and the start of the next. I removed these for chapter one so that there is no large white space any more. At least that's one thing... However, I don't know why either (a) the ref's don't populate when smallrefs is called on each page when proofreading, or (b) why the noinclude tags don't work inside the ref follows.

Regards,TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:47, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

TeysaKarlov: The problem with removing the line breaks is that the pages which contain the notes no longer appear on the left side of the page when reading the transcluded work. However, I do have answers to your questions:

(m)(a) The references on the pages are made using this code: <ref name="R101"></ref>. The  is a zero-width space; thus, on the pages where the reference is in the text (but not the “Notes” pages at the end of the chapter), the only thing displayed is the zero-width space. The references on the “Notes” pages begin with <ref follow="R101">. The follow parameter means that any text in that reference will come after the text in an ealier reference with the same name. In this case, the follow="R101" text on the “Notes” page—which has the actual reference text—will come after the name="R101" text from the page on which the reference appears—which is a zero-width space.

(m)(b) The answer to this question is quite simple: MediaWiki doesn’t allow it. Tags cannot be called inside of a <ref> tag.

Your edits removing the lines have created another problem: the references on the “Notes” page now are backwards, running from ¹⁸ at the top to ¹ at the bottom. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

@TE(æ)A,ea. My edit removing the line breaks didn't create the out of order problem; they were already out of order, I just didn't list that as one of the (many) outstanding issues with the references. Well, I can't actually comment whether it screwed up the ordering even more than they already were, but they definitely were not in the right order before I removed all the line breaks. As for the other issue, I am not sure how acceptable it would be, but we could just go with the aggressive option of removing the numbers rather than using the noinclude tags. Then at least the transcluded text would look "completely" correct. I realise these changes might make things annoying to validate, but then I guess there is also no guarantee the pages will ever get validated... Ultimately, I don't mind which way things go, and am grateful for any assistance fixing things, or with the proofreading in general. Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 00:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov, @TE(æ)A,ea.. I did notice that this work used endnotes rather than footnotes, so I looked at H:NOTES#Endnotes and tried to use the footnote overflow method that is mentioned at the end of that section (since I am familiar with it). I soon discovered that the endnotes in Page namespace get presented in a random order. I have no idea if inserting dummy <ref></ref> tags at the top of each page of footnotes (just like the main text), wrapped in <noinclude></noinclude> tags would cure it.

The fact that it didn’t work was the reason I stopped proofreading the work, and moved on to something else. I would not object if someone wanted to convert the work to the ‘footnotes in page namespace’ model that is the usual method on WS. After all, once transcluded, the result in main namespace will be the same. Yes, it makes proofreading/validating a pain (do the endnotes first?), but it will work. Either way, the Help page will need to be updated to reflect our experience with this issue. Hope this helps. — Iain Bell (talk) 11:44, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

@Iain Bell, @TE(æ)A,ea.

Thanks for the update. I agree that the documentation on best practices for footnotes probably needs to be revised/improved. I have started converting everything to authority references. This fixes all issues listed in the above, as far as I can tell (it may have a font size "issue", but I am not so concerned with this).

Thanks,TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

P.S. There is a slight issue when the reference text to divide into sections crosses a page. I have brute forced the single case (crossing p. 49 and p. 50 by moving the small amount of text from the start of p. 50 to p. 49) but I would like to know if there is a better way. There is also an unknown issue with reference 29 in Chapter 1, which is broken, for, as far as I can tell, absolutely no reason whatsoever... TeysaKarlov (talk) 02:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Unterminated formatting in Translation:Shulchan_Aruch/Yoreh_Deah/334

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Special:LintErrors was flagging this a containing an Unterminated HTML tag.

However, I don't feel confident in editing what appears to Hebrew text, as I've had technical issues with how Firefox handles the transition between RTL and LTR based typsetting in edit-boxes.

Is there a user on Wikisource that would be able to analyze this and other pages in the Translation namespace to resolve the LintErrors? (From what I can tell the errors seem to be relatively straightforward to resolve, being mismatched terminations of bold or italic formatting.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:51, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Found unclosed italics in English block of Section 29. Does this solve the problem? (I don't know how to get the information whether a given page is free from lint errors.)--Tylopous (talk) 16:40, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

See Special:LintErrors (and in the various categories select Translation: I also use a script :- w:User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Printing error

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

In this page Page:The works of George Eliot (Volume 23).djvu/138 some c's have been printed o's. Errors : churohes, speeoh. How do I proofread such cases ? --Stamlou (talk) 20:51, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

@Stamlou: I'd say use {{SIC}}, like {{SIC|churohes|churches}}.Tylopous (talk) 05:49, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Will do. Thank you Stamlou (talk) 19:32, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

How to enter two authors for one work in Monthly Challenge module?

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

While adding Index:Grimm's Household Tales, vol.1.djvu to the April challenge module, I encountered this problem. How to credit both Jacob Grimm and Wilhelm Grimm?--Tylopous (talk) 06:43, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

The module supports using a list for authors, like this. Thanks for working on set-up! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 06:59, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Firefox skews the display of my sandbox navigator, but not Vivaldi/Chrome

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I ask a Firefox user to see how this Sandbox Navigator is displayed in the linked sandbox pages.

In my view, the contents are squeezed together and occupy 60% width of the page as opposed to the original template. The red outline shows the width of the linked page. This is not a Wikisource software issue because Vivaldi displays the template properly in all links. These two pages, User:Ineuw/Sandbox3 and User:Ineuw/Sandbox5 have data.

Already rebuilt Firefox, (98.1) cleared all cookies, and removed the contents of my vector.css. But none of these helped. Thanks in advance.Ineuw (talk) 17:26, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: Looks fine to me in Safari, Chrome, and Firefox. Have you tried looking at it when not logged in (a "Private Window" in Firefox, ought to do it)? Xover (talk) 19:07, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Many thanks for checking. My profile corrupted. Ineuw (talk) 11:16, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Help for new project

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hi dear all, I want to prepare a proposal for the approval of the Talysh Wikisource project. Please help me. --Patriot Kor (talk) 21:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Index:Murder on the Links - 1985.djvu

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

I have a request to add an image for the Bantam Books logo for the Murder on the Links book.

I notice that the licensing page for the book contains Main content (published 1925): {{PD/US|deathyear=1976}} and Cover image and any other content: {{PD-US-no-notice-post-1977}} but there is also a summary page telling not to copy to commons. I do not find any pre-existing Bantam Books logo on commons that I could use, so I am wondering if the logo is still protected by copyright or am I allowed to create a image of the logo and upload it to Wikisource only? Thanks Sp1nd01 (talk) 08:16, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Some further information: Page:Murder on the Links - 1985.djvu/8 states:

Bantam Books are published by Bantam Books, Inc. lts trademark, consisting of the words “Bantam Books” and the portrayal of a rooster, is Registered in U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and in other countries. Marca Registrada. Bantam Books, Inc., 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York 10103.

I'm not sure what this implies for the copyright status of the rooster logo.--Tylopous (talk) 14:50, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I'd not seen that page. So it's probably best that I don't upload the image anywhere for now. Thanks for pointing that out. Sp1nd01 (talk) 18:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Sp1nd01, Tylopous: Protection for trademarks and protection for copyrighted works are separate. The Bantam mark is protected as a trademark, but there is no notice of copyright protection for such mark. The book was published by Bantam, meaning that the Bantam mark was included with the approval of Bantam. Because the Bantam mark was published in this work with the approval of Bantam, the mark will be in the public domain if this work does not have an appropriate, relevant copyright notice. (The work would thus be PD-US-no-notice-post-1977.) The copyright page notes a 1923 copyright for the text of the novel Muder on the Links, but has no other copyright notice. Thus, everything printed in the hosted 1985 Bantam edition, except what was published originally in 1923, is in the public domain. Thus, the Bantam mark is in the public domain. The reason the file cannot be transferred to Wikimedia Commons is because of the copyright of Murder on the Links (1923), not this edition. Thus, the Bantam mark can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
@TE(æ)A,ea.: Thank you very much for this detailed explanation! -- Tylopous (talk) 17:45, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks also from me for the detailed explanation, another user has already uploaded the file so I have no outstanding actions on this. Sp1nd01 (talk) 22:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Line breaks and quotes

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Hello! I'm a relatively new contributor here, and I'm working on Index:An Account of Corsica (1769).djvu. I find page 123 to be problematic. The second half of the page contains a quotation from Montesquieu. Every line from the quotation begins with a single quotation mark ('). How should I format this when transcribing? Should I follow the original, or should I remove the line breaks and quotation marks? Thank you! Fehufanga (talk) 06:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Fehufanga: You can leave out the additional quotation marks found at the beginning of each new line. Just transcribe the initial and final quotation mark. Even if the quote ends only on the next page. -- Tylopous (talk) 07:22, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice! Fehufanga (talk) 07:26, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

(e/c)Further note. This is a 19th Century printers' trick to indicate a longer quoted passage from the margin. We can't reproduce it because of the ever-changing margins in html on the vast range of window sizes that people read on. Please do what Tylopous has recommended. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:28, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

TOC not exporting in Japan: Its History, Arts, and Literature/Volume 1

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Only the last TOC entry for the Appendix is exporting in Japan: Its History, Arts, and Literature/Volume 1. I tried using export TOC, but that didn't fix the issue either. Languageseeker (talk) 19:06, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker: I just tried downloading the PDF and it seemed to contain all the chapters. Is it still broken for you? Xover (talk) 06:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

A Programmable Web

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Back in 2019 I helped to transcribe the work A Programmable Web by Aaron Swartz. Now, with more experience on the Wikis, I noticed that the book is under a non-commercial license. So, it should be deleted from Commons/Wikisource? Or would be better to see what the publisher thinks? See IA. Would also be nice to see what to do with this French language translation. Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 13:31, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@Erick Soares3: Unfortunately, AaronSw didn't make clear his intentions on his writings, leaving his executors to rely on various general licensing statements (like on his blog) and best guesses at what he would have wished. For a lot of his writings that ended up being CC BY-NC-SA (see e.g. Guerilla Open Access Manifesto), which is compatible with neither Wikisource nor Commons. There are exceptions, so each work will have to be assessed individually, but as a general rule of thumb his work cannot be hosted here even though it seems to be freely available online in places like IA (where it has incorrect license tagging, despite Kahle knowing Aaron personally, grr!). This is especially frustrating since I am personally convinced Aaron would have relicensed most of his work to be compatible had he still been with us, but those who knew him best have concluded otherwise (and I absolutely bow to their judgement on this issue; they are good people and they have not taken the issue lightly).

As for the specific work, unless you are confident of its specific licensing and that it is compatible, you should list it on WS:CV; or, if it is clearly incompatibly licensed, you can either tag it for speedy deletion or flag down me or another admin to delete it. Xover (talk) 06:55, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

{{Missing image}} and {{missing table}} float to the top of the page in mainspace

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

See for example The Natural History of Ireland/Volume 1 and 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Psychology. Does anyone know what's going on here/how to fix it? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 01:04, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: Yes, and it's my fault. :)

It's the dynamic layouts Gadget that's having to do various hacky transformations on page content, and as a consequence has to do hacky changes to maintenance templates' positions in the DOM tree. Depending on the phase of the moon and what bit of hacky code I've last tweaked, some maintenance templates will appear out of place in non-obvious ways.

I'll try to remember to do a spot-fix for the two maint templates you mention here as soon as I have the spare cycles to look into it (feel free to remind me if needed), but a real proper fix is currently not going to happen any time soon. Xover (talk) 07:05, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, that's good to know! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 19:47, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Misplaced punctuation in print

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

The original print text of Page:A Daughter of the Samurai.pdf/149 says, "the family admired me the, servants watched me" which has a misplaced comma. May I correct this or should it be left as-is? Ninestories (talk) 16:51, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@Ninestories: We reproduce works as they were published, so this kind of thing should not be corrected. You can use {{SIC}} to mark them though. Xover (talk) 17:16, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying @Xover. I am reluctant to use {{SIC}} since the error is not a word, so I will leave it be. Ninestories (talk) 17:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@Ninestories: You can include an entire phrase in the {{SIC}} template: {{SIC|me the, servants|me, the servants}}. Xover (talk) 07:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Line numbers in Index:The Elene of Cynewulf.djvu

Latest comment: 2 years ago16 comments5 people in discussion

Index:The Elene of Cynewulf.djvu is a prose translation of an originally poetic work. It is furnished with line numbers, but these line numbers are clearly not marking the lines of prose (they are unevenly spaced); presumably they are anchors to the lines of the original poetic text. The problem is that if the prose is transcribed simply as prose, these line numbers might not be put in the right place due to line wrapping; on the other hand, if existing line breaks are maintained in the transcribed text, words split by hyphens at line ends would remain split (and it's simply a bit strange to transcribe running prose with definite line breaks). Probably the second option is preferable here for preserving the original formatting of the text, but is there any superior solution available? Shells-shells (talk) 19:38, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells: Looks like they are indeed every fifth line of the original text. One possibility is to use {{verse}} without the align parameter, which is supposed to set the numbers inline. This would bring them somewhere near their placement in the text, but would take them out of the margin. Another is to use {{pline}} at the points they appear on the printed page and let the wiki-magic sort out which lines they appear to the right of. Hopefully no-one would be reading the text on an extremely wide screen to have two numbers appear for the one line. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells @Beeswaxcandle Not sure if this is a good idea, but could Template:Tooltip be an option. E.g. either or (or really any variation thereof which best fits with Wikisource policies) be acceptable? If need be something could also be added to the header notes when transcluding to say that this has been done. At the very least, it would avoid forcing line breaks. TeysaKarlov (talk) 05:11, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

The use of tooltips should be kept to a minimum as they don't behave at all well on e-Readers and are impossible on Braille readers. With the available alternatives, I'm not sure that using tooltips in this way is a good thing. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:59, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle Thanks for the prompt reply. Given tooltip's out, I had another idea for getting the text justified. Is what has been done to the first passage f Page:The Elene of Cynewulf.djvu/15 acceptable? I have a comparison to pline below it. I am not sure how much more work it will be, but the text does seem fairly short. I also haven't yet tested it across a page boundary, but I would be hope I could get something figured out for that if it was trouble. TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

The method you're exploring doesn't really tie the numbers to the text; if the user is using a wide screen (like an e-reader on a landscape tablet) or a very narrow screen (like a phone), they'll end up in the wrong places. Have you considered using {{right sidenote}}, such as you see at Page:The Solar System - Six Lectures - Lowell.djvu/19? — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 12:59, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle; @Dcsohl Thank you for your comments thus far. I attempted a few more methods to get around the small screen issue (larger screens were fine the old way) without avail. I had also considered sidenote, but it only seems to allow justified text at the default layout widths, i.e. I don't know how to enforce a width to justify the central column of text to, and still have the sidenotes, or at the very least, not unless I could lock things to default layout 2. If it is possible to lock the width of the central column, this would probably be easier (and please say so if I can). Otherwise, I have come up with a workaround. Is my workaround, applied to the first two pages, fine? Also when putting in the line numbers, am I supposed to switch one page left, one page right, like the text does? Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 02:06, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Here's how I'd approach this: this work was a poem in Old English, which has been translated to modern English and converted to prose at the same time. As such, these line numbers can only ever be loose approximations to the line numbers in the original poem, so I personally wouldn't spend so much effort getting them to line up exactly with the exact same line of text that happened to occur in the modern text.

You also can't control everything about the reader's environment. For example, the {{justifytmp}} template forces each line to be 29em wide, which is too wide for my phone and forces side-to-side scrolling, and it also doesn't show up justified.

As such, I've taken a stab at how the next page might look with sidenotes. — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 15:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Myself, I would use {{pline}} and not worry too much about it. The second paragraph in the lede on Help:Beginner's guide to typography applies to this situation.

With respect to the question about swapping sides, remember that, at presentation of the text in the Mainspace, the reader will won't see left and right pages and that the page breaks on an e-reader won't be in the same places either. This means that if the numbers switch sides multiple times, it will make the text difficult to read. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:43, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

For reference, here's what {{pline}} might look like, in this prose rendition of The Odyssey. I think {{pline}} is a fine solution also. — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 18:51, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle; @Dcsohl Many thanks for the responses (and the example) in spite of my continued pestering. In the end, I went with pline; overall the line numbers seem to move less than with sidenote, or with my original attempts, and I realised I can still get the text justified at the approximately correct width. Hopefully not pushing my luck here, but if I might bother you with one more question... Say I have been using block center (or any template for that matter), and specify a setting like width=24em. If I later decide I wanted width=23.5em, it is a pain to change. Is there ever a way to define "local variables" (not sure what they would be called) for an index, so if I want to adjust something on multiple pages, I would then be able to do so just from the one place where I define the variable (e.g. the index page). Or is this only achievable with either a bot, or a index specific template, like what I had originally with justifytmp? (feel free to sdelete said template if you want, or I can just use it the next time I want to try something). Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:01, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: There is now support for per-Index CSS styles (see the "Styles" tab on the Index: page), so you can apply the formatting from there. Either to all templates of a given type, or some templates allow you to specify a custom class attribute that you can then target from CSS. Xover (talk) 06:10, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Thank you for this information. Super useful. TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:43, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

I see you already have an answer; I would just urge you to strongly consider not setting an absolute width to the text, for accessibility reasons (but also just because you don't know where the user may end up reading your text). For example, somebody with poor vision might use a very large font, and if you set the text width to 24em, they may end up have to scroll side-to-side.

If you really must, please consider using max-width instead (if, for example, you just want to ensure you don't end up with two {{pline}}s on the same line). — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 19:24, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@Dcsohl Sorry, I didn't really know the difference between width and max-width. I am switching to the latter given your comment. In general I prefer not to greatly compromise what I presume is the most likely version that people will see, and generally aim to have that look as pretty as possible. I am okay with minor concessions, though I weight them by how likely it is that I think they will be seen. Hopefully that made some sense. TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:46, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov Thank you—I think one of the great joys of etexts is that they can be universally accessible, and I personally would rather see our texts be more accessible than more beautiful (but I think accomplishing both is doable). — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 13:41, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

TOC formatting

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Can someone please take a look at this: [3] [4]? I couldn't get it to both put the "BIOGRAPHICAL FRAGMENTS." in the right place, and have the "..." lengths be the same before and after. 70.172.194.25 23:58, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Fixed, I hope. The trick was using {{TOC row c}}. Per Help:Table, |+, the table caption, is only between the table start and the first table row. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 02:43, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! That makes sense. You can probably tell I was just copying from the formatting on the previous page, where it worked because the line that needed to be bolded was in the correct location. 70.172.194.25 02:58, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Why is there no space between words on different pages on Android mobile devices using Chrome?

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I was looking at the page The_Catholic_Prayer_Book_and_Manual_of_Meditations/Novena_for_the_Festival_of_Corpus_Christi on my laptop and it's fine, but on my Android phone using Chrome there is no space between "moment the". It appears as "momentthe". Bobdole2021 (talk)

@Bobdole2021: I see nothing obvious there that should cause that kind of symptom, but I don't have an Android phone to test. Sorry. --Xover (talk) 07:25, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

You don't need Android to test, just visit en.m.wikisource.org: [5]. 70.172.194.25 07:36, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Just to note: I've been able to reproduce this now. It currently looks like a weird interaction between the mobile skin transforming content and what looks like a bug in Chrome. I'll try to keep digging into it to see if we can find a fix or workaround, but no promises on either timing or results. Xover (talk) 07:57, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I'll add that I've played around with this as well, and it appears to be because of the page-number indication, which is rendered as a set of three nested s. The innermost contains a zero-width space in the mobile rendering, but is empty in the regular rendering. If you remove the zero-width space from the mobile rendering, Chrome renders the page with the space. It looks like this space is somehow overriding the fact that "moment" has a space after it before the first . Anybody know why the mobile skin puts this zero-width space there? — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 13:39, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't; it's the desktop site that runs a default gadget that removes the zero-width space (which in itself is a bug, btw, and breaks other stuff). Xover (talk) 11:14, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Splitting doesn't work

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Hi, Splitting doesn't work here: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi/Volume I/1894 Petition to Lord Ripon and The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi/Volume I/1894. In fact, all splits are blocked according to [6]. Any idea? Thanks, Yann (talk) 20:55, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@Yann: It seems to have resolved itself now? There were some infrastructure problems connected with the MW deployment train yesterday that may have caused the bot to hang (for example on downloading DjVus from Commons to Toolforge, or any number of other similar issues). Please let me know if it happens again and I'll take a look. Xover (talk) 07:29, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

OK, but it is blocked again. Yann (talk) 20:29, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

@Yann: What are the specific symptoms you are observing? Are you seeing an error message anywhere, or is it just that nothing happens when you hit the "Split" button?

When looking into it when you first reported the issue I could see that there had been a delay of something like two hours, but no obvious errors anywhere in the logs. Xover (talk) 06:50, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: No, I don't see any error message. And I see now that the splits were done around 2 hours after I requested them. Yann (talk) 10:14, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Double sidenotes

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I am unsure about how to display the double-level sidenotes in Index:Covenants of an Indenture of Apprenticeship.pdf. (It also seems that some of the pages were compressed, but that’s a separate problem, and I still have the original, high-quality scans.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:47, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I think the challenges around reproducing and matching the display using sidenotes are beyond the benefits of doing so. Be pragmatic and pull the scripture references into the notes rather than hanging them out the side. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:42, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Beeswaxcandle; but if you want to have a go you could probably get away with putting both the sidenote levels inside a table with percentage widths for the columns, and then stuffing that inside a single sidenote. It'd be kinda messy and prone to failure, but it might work. Xover (talk) 08:13, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Need first page removed

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Could some helpful soul remove the first page of this DJVU file: File:Icarus or The Future of Science.djvu? Thank you!! Nosferattus (talk) 23:19, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nosferattus: I'll do you one better, and not only remove the first page and the last page; but I'll even get you about 30% higher image resolution as well. :-) In any case,

Done. In future you should probably put this kind of request at the Wikisource:Scan Lab. Xover (talk) 11:27, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh and, PS, you'll want to document the research you did to determine that this work was actually published in the US within 30 days of its UK publication. Just baldly asserting this was so risks the file being deleted somewhere down the line. Put the explanation and the research in the permissions field of the book template and use a real license template down in the licensing section. Xover (talk) 11:29, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thanks! I added my research to the permissions field. I'm not 100% sure about the 30 days, but the book is part of a series that was always published simultaneously in London and New York. I added some links to secondary sources that say that. So it's not 100% certain, but it's probably about as certain as you can get in these situations. Nosferattus (talk) 15:15, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nosferattus: You can often find mentions of a work in "Books received", reviews, or ads from the publisher in contemporary newspapers that pinpoint the publication dates with sufficient accuracy. It is sometimes also possible to find a specific date in US copyright registrations or renewals (the renewal usually lists the original registration date). Xover (talk) 08:09, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Statistics of April Monthly Challenge not working

Latest comment: 2 years ago10 comments3 people in discussion

Something seems to be wrong with the Monthly Challenge statistics. They show less than 30 pages processed for yesterday, while a realistic figure would be at least 250 or even 300 pages, as we had a lot of activity. Any help appreciated.-- Tylopous (talk) 05:24, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous: I'd bet that the problem is that there are too many total pages included in the challenge. Every previous month has been teetering on the very edge of making Mediawiki fall over, so that's the most likely reason. In any case, only Inductiveload knows the guts of this setup enough to pinpoint the cause. Xover (talk) 11:47, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thanks for your reply. Yesterday, sometimes negative numbers were shown in the stats table. This may have been caused by a too large number of pages, I guess. Some kind of overflow? In any case, fortunately all other aspects of the challenge keep working well.--Tylopous (talk) 11:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Not really an overflow, so much as a timeout. The monthly Challenge stuff works by creating a dependency, similar to a template transclusion, on every single page (whether existing yet or not) included in the challenge. This month's challenge, for example, seems to have 23,966 total pages. So Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/April 2022 is essentially trying to "transclude" 24k pages. I can't even edit that page because all the dependency checking hits a hard database timeout after 60 seconds. It's entirely possible that the stats wonkiness has a more banal explanation (a bot that didn't run when the month rolled over, a syntax error in a config or data file somewhere, etc.), but since we're hitting that scaling limit hard I can't even trace the problem down towards its root cause. Xover (talk) 12:27, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

It almost certainly doesn't have anything to do with the scaling thing - the stats are generated offline and do exist at Module:Monthly_Challenge_daily_stats/data/2022-04. Looks like the stats-generation script isn't picking up changes, I'll have a look later. Re the scaling thing, there was a lot of replies to meta:Community Wishlist Survey 2022/Miscellaneous/Check if a page exists without populating WhatLinksHere (it doesn't only cause issues for WS:MC, it's a problem in a lot of places) but I have no idea of anyone actually intends to actually do anything about it. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:15, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

OK, it looks like that stats-generating script on Toolforge has encountered something weird in the actual text content of one of the page in Grimm's and fallen over. I will try to fix it whenever people in the real world just leave me alone for 10 minutes. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:23, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

They won't work in it. It's ranked #7 in the prioritized list (adjusted for complexity, engineering effort, etc.) behind stuff that is very likely to eat all CommTech team hours for 2022. Xover (talk) 13:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

This should now be working again (the fix). I don't know what caused it, and I'll try to find out, but for now it'll just skip pages that upset it. The page that's tripping it up is Page:Grimm's Household Tales, vol.1.djvu/196, but it's not instantly obvious why that page explodes things but not the literally hundreds of thousands of others that then MC script has read up to now. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 17:43, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Mystery solved: one of the revisions was deleted, which produces null text for the page and that exploded the function that gets the page status. Interesting that that has apparently never happened in a page in the MC until now! Thank you @Tylopous for the report. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 20:35, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: Thanks a lot!--Tylopous (talk) 05:57, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

[page] labels appearing/disappearing

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hi. Why one of the two "[page]" labels is appearing/disappearing depending on layout in 1911 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Dorchester, Dudley Carleton, Viscount? Is this a known behavior? Thanks —unsigned comment by Mpaa (talk) 23:10, 18 January 2022‎ (UTC).

@Mpaa: Sorry, this got kinda lost in the chaos. Good thing you forgot to sign or the bot would have long since archived it. :)

The issue is that the first page is just a single sentence, so when the page numbers are displayed in the gutter they would overlap (they are absolutely positioned). To avoid that the Gadget has explicit logic to hide a page number if it would be positioned within some specific vertical distance of the previous one. i.e. it's known behaviour with no easy / short-term fix or workaround. --Xover (talk) 06:47, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there an automatic process for correcting converting documents that exist as PDFs or do I have to print out and scan back in?

Latest comment: 2 years ago14 comments5 people in discussion

I have just added this to the ASCII article on en.wikipedia.

"American National Standard Code for Information Interchange". National Institute for Standards. 1977. (facsimile, not machine readable)
- Also known as "ASCII" and "X3.64.1977"

If it is at all possible to get it into a form that does not disable sight-impaired visitors, I would prefer to use it. Please advise. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:30, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Before anyone spends any time on it, it may not be permissible in any case. I thought it was a US Federal Government document and thus public domain but it says clearly (c)1977 American National Standards Institute. According to "Copyright Term Extension Act" on en.wikipedia, the work is in copyright until 2097 (!). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:13, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this non-profit standards organization does retain copyright on its works, which is very disappointing. You could always reach out to them to see if they will relicense and old, outdated work. :/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:20, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that another option is that you could try to upload it to Commons and transcribe it here, arguing that it's in the public domain by "incorporation by reference" into law: if this standard is a law, then it needs to be freely available for anyone to read and understand and in the United States, all laws, decrees, judicial opinions, treaties, etc. are public domain. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:23, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

FIPS PUB 1-2 is {{PD-USGov}}, and is the way in which the ANSI X3.4-1977 standard was incorporated into law (well, a federal government mandate, but the difference is mostly academic). I wouldn't bet on the PRO "incorporation by reference" case before doing significant amounts of research: the District Court ruling was that PRO was fair use, not that the documents were necessarily public domain (or otherwise ineligible for copyright). Xover (talk) 16:40, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Xover, Justin (koavf), John Maynard Friedman (pinging for interest in copyright): Two judges have opined on the question of whether standards, incorporated by reference into law, enter the public domain. Judge Victor Marrero of the Southern District of New York, after a long discussion, determined that such standards are in the public domain. Judge Tanya S. Chutkan of the District of Columbia summarily dismissed the claim that the works entered the public domain, without discussing the UpCodes case or any caselaw. Between the two cases, I would rely on the former because of the Judge’s discussion of caselaw and its earlier date. Judge Chutkan is also just wrong in stating that the government-edicts doctrine applies “only to state works” and that such a phrasing excludes works made by non-state actors. I wouldn’t rely on one district court opinion being more reliable than another to win over WMF Legal, though, if you tried to upload this document. Also, Xover, how could I go about proposing that enWS accept standards under fair-use standards? I know that enWS is allowed to have a local policy, but I don’t think there is one yet. Given the uncertainty about what the “government edicts” doctrine actually entails as a copyright doctrine—i.e., whether said works are in the public domain or whether they are allowed to be reposted in full under the statutory “fair use” doctrine—I think it would be wise to create a local fair use policy which incorporated the current difference of opinion. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Interesting indeed. Amazing that the ANSI hasn't appealed the first judgement! I will ask at en.wiki whether, if I do upload it here, will they accept links to it. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:34, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Looking at Commons:Commons talk:Licensing, I notice a justification "published elsewhere". Obviously that doesn't apply to pirate sites but in this case the site is nvlpubs.nist.gov which, I guess, trumps everything? The document in question is freely available: the problem is only that it is a 1MB image file (as a PDF) and thus disables sight-impaired visitors so who can object to a machine-readable version? Possibly someone here who is a US citizen could get it changed under the AwDA of 1990 but I see no reason to wait. I plan to just go ahead and do it, then see who complains. I won't ask the question at en.wiki: if it is good enough for Wikisource, no second opinion is required. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:42, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

John Maynard Friedman: Certainly, the NIST isn’t an illegal Web-site; even if ANSI tried to sue, they wouldn’t be able to get the Code taken down. By AwDA, I assume you mean ADA? The copyright would expire before the court case was over, in all likelihood. There is no ground for enWP to object to works hosted on enWS; the projects are independent, so it is up to enWS to patrol potential copyright violations. If the work is in the public domain, which it would be according to Judge Marrero, you can post it here, no problem. If the work is law, and posting the law is a fair use, which it would be according to Judge Chutkan, you cannot post it on enWS yet. There is currently no fair use policy on enWS; one would have to be created to account for Judge Chutkan’s ruling. I don’t think it is a large problem—I don’t think that there would be any opposition to amending the policy as such—but it would need to be amended first before such a change could happen consequences-free. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:00, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Leaving aside the copyright question and the specifics of this particular document, I might have some useful tips. But let me first see if I understand your question correctly John Maynard Friedman. Are you hoping to repair the text layer of the PDF, so that (for instance) headings and images and so forth are handled in a more sensible way, or columns are aligned properly? If so, I haven't found any straightforward way to do that with PDFs, but I've found that command line tools for DJVU files exist that permit doing just that. The process I've found is more or less:

Convert the PDF to DJVU
Extract the entire text layer from the DJVU file into a .dsed document (which is a text format)
Edit the .dsed document, using a text editor, or text manipulation tools like grep
Inject the .dsed document back into the DJVU file
(If desired) Convert the DJVU back to PDF

Let me know if you'd like more specific tips on this. -Pete (talk) 18:01, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both. I doubt that it has anything as clever as a text layer. Afaics, it is just an photocopy of the original document which is mostly text, some tables, no photos.

So if I did think it worthwhile, the easiest solution would be to display it on a PC screen and use my Chromebook to OCR it. But the copyright issue would have to be resolved first. Do you have a resident copyright maven? I think we need to know for sure rather than just "everybody knows". I'm sure the US government mandates compliy with certain ISO standards but they are (expensively) copyright and we certainly can't copy them.. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:07, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

User:John Maynard Friedman: Yeah, I wasn't sure when you asked whether sharing on Wikimedia sites was a crucial component of your question. You're right that a strong determination of public domain status would be necessary, but this "by reference" notion is new to me, and entirely outside my expertise. So my answer is purely a technical one, not at all a legal one; it's something you could do entirely on a Linux-based computer, with no need to use any Wikimedia software. (I also assumed that, like many scanned PDF documents, this one would have a text layer generated by the scanning software, just with mangled formatting. But on closer inspection, you're right, it does not. So, I guess that would take slightly more sophisticated knowledge about how to generate page break codes etc. in the .dsed document, which might take a little trial and error.) So, in a nutshell...I think my answer has missed the mark, but perhaps useful to somebody reading along for a different situation. Sorry I couldn't be more help here. -Pete (talk) 07:22, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I knew I could do it "the hard way", I just hoped that Wikisource would have a "photocopy in, text out" facility. It is all moot now because of copyright law. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 08:38, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Aargghh I've just spotted that autocorrect mangled the title of this section. So I've been asking about "conversion" and you've been responding about "correction"! So it is even more moot. I'll get my coat. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 08:42, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Page break problem

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I have a page break that I am unable to resolve. I know it is wrong but could someone show how it should be done. The pages are Page:Pocahontas, and Other Poems.djvu/59 and Page:Pocahontas, and Other Poems.djvu/60. There is a left margin of 4em and a block center/e and block center/s. I have ended 59 with </poem> and begun 60 with <poem> but whatever I try there is always a line break that should not be there, as this is all one stanza. This can be seen on Pocahontas, and Other Poems/Anna Boleyn. Esme Shepherd (talk) 17:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

This is one of the main reasons why some of us have long stopped using poem tags and changed to using at the end of each line with {{gap}} for indenting, per H:POEM. There is no way around this problem using poem tags only. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts. I have left the last line of Page:Pocahontas, and Other Poems.djvu/59 out of the poem format and this seems to have done the trick. Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:24, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

This problem is more complicated than it seems because I have been using <poem> across pages for years and have never come across it before. I didn't set this volume up and I see in the header coding entries something to the effect of page break label={{dhr}} and {{dhr}} is included in the headers. This seems to resolve the problem but I don't know why it arises. Esme Shepherd (talk) 12:41, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I used {{ppoem}} and reformatted this, it now handles the page break elegantly. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:04, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Another Stats Problem in April MC

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

The April MC stats have ceased to record any new page status changes from yesterday on. I can't tell the reason. I'm grateful for help. Mentioning Inductiveload as the one who knows most about the inner workings of the statistics.--Tylopous (talk) 04:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Hmm. It looks like the bot is running and updating the stats data, but the numbers for today are the same as those for yesterday. Not obvious what would cause it, so it'll take debugging from Inductiveload to pinpoint the reason. Xover (talk) 06:26, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous You mentioned that Jules Verne might have been an issue. If it has been transcluded, would it be worth deleting it from the module script entirely? Or have you already ruled this out? Personally, I think something broke as early as the 5th, or maybe even the 4th of April. TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks to all who helped. The statistics table now shows numbers that are plausible.

@TeysaKarlov: You were right, the numbers were already off at least as early as the 5th, as one can see in the updated table. As for the Jules Verne index, sure, I wouldn't mind deleting it from the MC module after transclusion, but actually I doubt that this index caused the problems. Yesterday, that was just a guess on my part.--Tylopous (talk) 18:17, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

This one wasn't related to the indexes or pages in question, I think I just borked it somehow and it didn't fall over until the next time it noticed a new index was added. Sorry! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:19, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Transclusion of Index:The Science of Getting Rich - Wattles - 1910.djvu

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments4 people in discussion

As it stands, this should be transcluded to The Science of Getting Rich and its subpages. Should the original contents of these pages be preserved in some way (moved)? Or can they simply be replaced by the transclusion code?--Tylopous (talk) 16:21, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous I am not sure if it is exactly the same situation, but when there was previous text for the Last Man, it was just directly replaced, see history for: The Last Man (Shelley); note the entire text was originally all on one page. Admittedly in that case it was converted to a versions page, but the main point is that non-scan-backed text wasn't saved (as far as I am aware). Obviously I am not the authority here, but I am strongly inclined to believe that it can be directly replaced without incident. TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous: In my view the older pages should simply be overwritten by the transcluded work. They could even be deleted: this case appears to fit criterion 4 for speedy deletion (redundancy), as the edition cited as the source in Talk:The Science of Getting Rich and the edition at Index:The Science of Getting Rich - Wattles - 1910.djvu appear to be identical: copyright April 1, 1910, published by E. Towne in Holyoke, Massachusetts. In any case, overwriting the pages seems pretty harmless, as the old transcription can still be readily accessed if necessary. Shells-shells (talk) 20:58, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both for your explanations.--Tylopous (talk) 05:57, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells, @TeysaKarlov, @Tylopous: Please keep in mind that every mainspace page on Wikisource is connected to a Wikidata item. For a text, like The Science of Getting Rich, it will (or should, at least) be connected to a Wikidata item that describes a particular edition of a given work. If it is a versions page it is connected to a Wikidata item describing the given work. If such pages are deleted here the corresponding Wikidata item has its backlink to Wikisource deleted. If they are moved the Wikidata item is updated accordingly. However... if we simply edit an existing page—for example to replace an old unsourced text with a transcluded scan-backed text—there is no way for the software to detect what has happened. The result is a mismatch between the actual content on the page (e.g. it's the first edition) and what's recorded in the Wikidata item (e.g. it reflects a randomly chosen much later reprint of the 7th edition).

For this reason we generally do not recommend overwriting pages in these cases, preferring instead to delete + recreate, or move to a new name + recreate. Only if the old text and the new text are known to be the exact same edition, or you are prepared to manually update Wikidata accordingly, should you overwrite a text like this. Not that it's the end of the world or anything, but it does create problems that need to be fixed; and worse, that are hard to detect and tedious to fix. Xover (talk) 07:46, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Thanks for the clarification (@Tylopous sorry for any misleading information). However, could you please clarify a little further, specifically this comment "Please keep in mind that every mainspace page on Wikisource is connected to a Wikidata item", particularly in the context of, e.g. Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Knapsack, the Hat, and the Horn. Some of the tales appear to already have text present (from I know not where), and I would like to be able to transclude the now proofread stories. Does each subpage/story have a wikidata item, and thus are these also situations that I should either move the story which is there or request an admin to delete? Or is that just for the front matter? Also, if I were to edit a wikidata item, where would I find it? Thanks,TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:57, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

@TeysaKarlov: I believe subpages do not automatically get a Wikidata item (not exactly sure of the behaviour there), but may get manually associated with one. If a page has an associated Wikidata item you will find a "Wikidata item" link in the "Tools" section of the left sidebar (at least, I think it shows up by default for everyone). But editing Wikidata can be a pretty darn steep learning curve, so I don't usually recommend most people try to go that route.

Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Knapsack, the Hat, and the Horn was originally created as The Knapsack, the Hat, and the Horn and then moved to a subpage of the work. This happened before Wikidata integration, so it didn't have a Wikidata item. In these circumstances you should be good to just replace its contents with a transclusion from the same index as the parent page. Xover (talk) 08:48, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

@Xover I had a look at a few different works. If said work had a Wikidata item, I was able to see it in the tools section of the sidebar, at least for the front matter. I haven't yet seen a subpage with a wikidata item, but I haven't really seen many works with wikidata items fullstop. In any case, thanks for the clarification, and I will proceed with caution whenever I see a Wikidata item. TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:07, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

References tag

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hi Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00

Before I waste more of my time trying to solve something that can't be, Is there a reason why REF tags provided inside a REFERENCES tag would have a different ordering when rendered to the order given in the markup? (Like perhaps it's using the order in which the given references appear earlier in the markup? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:05, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Import Micro-Face comics?

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hi all! Wikipedian here working on w:Draft:Micro-Face, the NPR Planet Money intellectual property superhero [7]. It'd be fantastic to have these available on Wikisource, as they're all in the public domain per Template:PD-US-not-renewed, but there's too many to import each page manually from here. Would anyone be interested in helping? Micro-Face appears in issues 1–7, 10–11, and 15. Sdkb (talk) 21:37, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Musical Notes Symbols

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

The book contain some musical notes symbols on page The book "Through Bolshevik Russia" contain some musical notes symbols in page Page:Through Bolshevik Russia - Snowden - 1920.djvu/46. help is needed to write and play it —unsigned comment by 2001:4450:8145:7800:18b0:c5ab:4e1f:f676 (talk) .

Done Please use {{missing score}} to mark such pages that you find and I'll get to them when I can. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:48, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Also missing score in pages:

Page:Through Bolshevik Russia - Snowden - 1920.djvu/60

Page:Through Bolshevik Russia - Snowden - 1920.djvu/61 2001:4450:8145:7800:E417:7E9E:AC6B:F5C 21:53, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Also missing score in pages:

Page:Through Bolshevik Russia - Snowden - 1920.djvu/60

Page:Through Bolshevik Russia - Snowden - 1920.djvu/61 2001:4450:8145:7800:C17B:B5A8:68E:957E 21:54, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

It's best to just add {{missing score}} to individual pages as you find them: all such pages will be organized in Category:Texts with missing musical scores for everyone who can fix this to fix it. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:49, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Lua problems

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments2 people in discussion

I'd like to delegate some of the logic in {{user contrib}} to a module, but I … don't actually know a lot about the Lua syntax. So far Module:User contrib has one function and I get an error when I try to invoke it.

Example

{{{1}}}

Help? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 08:48, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Two issues. See the module's change history with edit summaries. Xover (talk) 10:27, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Another question: it looks like, if I don't set n equal to anything, it defaults to a number between 10 and 25, because

{{#invoke:User contrib|make_id_bg}}

gives

Script error: The function "make_id_bg" does not exist..

What's happening here? Also, what is Module:String doing that means the parameters can be input without the equals sign (e.g. {{#invoke:String|len|target_string}})? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 10:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

In line 12 , new_args.n is nil so n is assigned the value -1. In the following if statement, because n is not >= 0, the first condition (line 14) fails. n is however < 25, so the second condition (line 16) succeeds. I'm not sure why you're assigning -1 there. If tonumber() fails it'll return nil to signal the failure. If you want to do something special when tonumber fails then simply put a check for that just after the call to tonumber(), and bail out or return an error or whatever makes most sense.

Module:String defines its own function (_getParameters) to preprocess the arguments in order to extract unnamed parameters. For most use cases this is neither needed nor particularly sensible to do: almost all modules will be invoked from a wrapper template, and that wrapper template can make sure to put unnamed template parameters into a named parameter when it invokes the module. And if you're using #invoke directly then that awkward syntax is a far bigger issue than having to use named parameters. Xover (talk) 12:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Oops, that makes sense. Thank you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 20:02, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Additional problem: In the info message, I'm invoking the module like so:

{{#invoke:User contrib|info_message|n = {{{1|}}}|username = {{urlencode:{{{2|{{BASEPAGENAME}}}}}}} …

and this is being passed along as e.g. {{urlencode:CalendulaAsteraceae}}. What I want it to do is apply the urlencode before invoking the module. How do I do this? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 19:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Do it in Lua. You should generally do nothing in template code except pass arguments. Any processing is best done in Lua. And if you absolutely have to get the exact behaviour of a magic word or other template, you're better off calling it with frame:expandTemplate. For other really obscure edge cases you may also need frame:preprocess. But neither should be the first tool you reach for. Xover (talk) 20:09, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Ling-Nam

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

i wanna convert File:Ling-Nam; or, Interior views of southern China, including explorations in the hitherto untraversed island of Hainan (IA cu31924023225307).pdf, but i'm unsure of what title is appropriate. should i just use "Ling-Nam"? also, this book has not been transcribed on ws right? RZuo (talk) 14:19, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, "Ling-Nam" would be an appropriate title, and this book has not been transcribed on Wikisource. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 00:12, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

The Murder on the Links

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Can someone check the copyright and upload it to Wikimedia Commons

https://archive.org/details/02.TheMurderOnTheLinks1923-JonathanOliver/

It's still under copyright in the United Kingdom, so it can't be uploaded to Commons. It's only out of copyright in the United States. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:43, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks 2001:4450:8145:7800:911D:265A:AC9E:D032 07:23, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Image of unclear copyright status within an otherwise PD work

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

In Lozman v. City of Riviera Beach (2013), p. 19 of the PDF (p. 16 of the Opinion of the Court) contains an image of unclear origin and copyright status. (The text of the document is {{PD-USGov}}, and the one other image is {{PD-US}}.) Assuming (as we must) that the p. 19 image is not freely licensed, then under c:COM:DEMINIMIS it's probably fine to have it stuck in the middle of the PDF, but it wouldn't be de minimis for me to crop the image for use as an illustration here on Wikisource. Can anyone advise as to how to handle this? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 00:23, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tamzin Wikisource doesn't operate a concept of fair use/de minimis in general, for the reason that you say. Normally, what I think is the "right" thing to do is to redact the scan (unless Commons does accept it as de minimis) and insert {{Image removed}} in the transcription. Users wishing to see the original image will then have to look in the scan or, if redacted, follow the link in the url field. Which is annoying, but better than nothing. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:40, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Two questions

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

Regarding The Kobzar of the Ukraine, I have two minor questions:

Should the previous and next links in the chapter headers follow the order in the original book, or the order in the book's TOC? The book's TOC put all the translated poems first, and then all the explanatory notes. The original book intersperses them so that an editor's note may precede a relevant poem. Currently we follow TOC order, and this seems fine to me, but I wasn't sure. (Not sure how to change this anyway.)
How do you add to the page header? For example on The Kobzar of the Ukraine/The Bondwoman's Dream, let's say I wanted to write "The original Ukrainian title is 'Сон'." somewhere in the header box. Or are such notes superfluous because of the interwiki links?

70.172.194.25 20:53, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

As for the first question, I am unsure of the answer. I am not sure how detailed Wikisource guidelines are. As a counter-example The Jade Story Book is transcluded in page order, rather than TOC order. However, if you are happy with it the way it is, then no need to make changes unless someone else says otherwise.

As for the second question, inserting the header template should work, see Template:Header. I have modified the header on The Kobzar of the Ukraine/The Bondwoman's Dream as an example. Feel free to adjust as you see fit. Note that a) You can insert the previous and next links manually, so can change the order if you desire, and b) you can add notes to the header template, or adjust how the title will display on each page.

Regards,TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:17, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks.

It's a little unfortunate that the two options are either having the header completely automatically generated (convenient), or writing the entire thing out manually (inconvenient to keep in sync across all pages). But I suppose that having the info is probably worth it. 70.172.194.25 21:36, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree that it is inconvenient to sync across pages when using a manual header, although copy-pasting the header from one page to the next saves most of the work, once you are happy with it for one page. At the end of the day, I did not answer the "Or are such notes superfluous because of the interwiki links?" part of your question, as that is all up to you. Personally, I don't usually check the interwiki links, so having the link in the header makes for a noticeable improvement, were I interested in the original text (which I cannot read). So in that sense, the extra effort is worth it. However, as for other users, I can only presume. TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:03, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

In respect of the first question, it should be transcluded in printed page order as that is the sequence in which the author/publisher intended. The TOC is purely a navigational aid for those who want to find a particular poem.
For the choice between using the auto-generated header or the template, the auto-generated header is only intended to be used for the simplest of works. As soon as there is any complexity, then use the {{header}} template. There is a gadget that helps with prefilling some of the fields at the time of creating the subpage (it's probably too late for this work). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:33, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Index:Orley Farm (Serial Volume 19).pdf

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Something seems to be wrong with the pdf file used for this index. Page images do not appear when editing or creating a page. How can this problem be solved?--Tylopous (talk) 07:10, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

It works now. Thanks to all who helped.--Tylopous (talk) 04:17, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Dark mode

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Is there a dark mode for wikisource? (Inverted colors) - Thanks ! - Joaquin89uy (talk) 19:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Everything here is fed through your browser. If you set your browser to Dark Mode, then Wikisource will appear that way too. There are few works that have color-specified text, I can think of red-text in works for example, but typically that is limited to title pages, and should not affect reading. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:51, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Poems (1821) Wm. Cullen Bryant

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Can anyone locate a scan of the 1821 Poems by William Cullen Bryant? The Wikipedia article on "Thanatopsis" notes that:

'"Thanatopsis" remains a milestone in American literary history. Poems was considered by many to be the first major book of American poetry.'

Given the status of this volume, it is bewildering to me that I cannot locate a scan at Hathi or IA.

The descriptions of Poems I have found say that the volume contains "The Ages", the revised text of "Thanatopsis", and a "half-dozen other poems". I am not sure whether that final statement is an accurate one; all later editions of Poems I can find have many more poems than that, but these might be expanded editions.

Can anyone locate a scan of this seminal volume in the history of American literature, or perhaps inquire at a major US library likely to have a copy (e.g. Boston, New York) where they have an active scanning program? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:19, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey Here is a scan at Yale University Library. It does indeed contain

2+{\tfrac {12}{2}}=8

poems. Shells-shells (talk) 22:18, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: See c:File:Poems_(Bryant,_1821).djvu. Mpaa (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Index:Poems (Bryant, 1821).djvu Mpaa (talk) 19:40, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Getting namespace in Lua

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

If I have a string which is the full title of a page, how can I get just the namespace? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 19:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: something like mw.title.new("Portal:Foobar").nsText (or namespace for the numeric namespace ID). Once you have a "title object", you can get quite a few things out of it. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 19:54, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload Thank you! Another Lua question: is there a way to get a list of all the extant subpages of a given page? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 21:34, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae it doesn't seem so: I think this phab:T49137, which has been at high priority for 8 years! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:05, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Ah, well. Thank you for looking! I was working on migrating {{lang links}} to Lua and checking the existence of all the possible subpages was too expensive. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 23:53, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Charts, graphs, and other issues with transcribing alot of pages for, The American Journal of Psychology Volume 1

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

This is what im talking about !, pages 22-35, 37, 39, and 42 are all similar to this, anyone have a clue on how to work with this? 🥲 VastVoidInSpace* (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

VastVoidInSpace*: The tables are only rendered vertically in the original to save space; therefore, they should be rendered horizontally for readability now. To rotate the text, use Text; this makes it looks nicer. Other than that, basic principles of tables and table styles apply; a lot of work, to be sure, but nothing astounding, technically speaking. The graphs are just images; extract them as normal. For the tables on pp. 39 and 42, the ellipses don’t need to be represented, but if you wish to represent them, use the following code: {{dtpl||Item||col3-width=0|entry-width=100%}}. Do you have any other questions? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Getting all keys of a Lua table

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Ideally in a new table. Is there a function to do this? I could just do it with a for loop but that seems inefficient. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 22:28, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

"Show Preview" bug

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

When first editing a page in the "Page:" namespace, the header will appear normal at first, like this:

This page has been proofread, but needs to be validated.

pagenum

title

chapter

But once I've hit the "Show Preview" button, it will change to this:

This page needs to be proofread.

And the running header which was previously there disappears. This happens irrespective of which page I edit, or whatever its proofread quality level is. I'm using Firefox without extensions.i'm mender? :/ (talk) 11:15, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Disabling the “Show previews without reloading the page” preference in the “Editing” tab of Special:Preferences temporarily disables the issue. This bug, however, happens even after resetting all preferences, as long as “Show previews without reloading the page” is enabled, irrespective of the browser used.

I will disable the preference as a fix for now. I hope there is a permanent solution in case there are others who experience this bug. I'm mender (talk) 19:40, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Having trouble converting Google Books PDF to DJVU

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments3 people in discussion

I can't seem to get this file converted (properly) to djvu. I've tried several of the online converters, downloaded all the windows programs I could find, even tried converting the pages one by one with DjVuLibre, but they all have some kind of problem. The file I have now seemed alright, but as I'm proofing it I see that some of the images have weird artifacts and anything with unusual typesetting, like small caps, is malformed. Can someone point me towards an old person friendly how-to or take pity on me and upload a decent copy? The current, bad mediawiki commons file is here and the cleaned PDF is here.

Oswallt (talk) 21:38, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

At a guess, it looks the existing file was produced by using the OCR text layer as a base for the text content and simply arranging it in order to visually replicate the original typesetting as closely as possible. This is presumably useful for minimizing the size of pdf and djvu files, but it destroys the original text scans, preserving only machine-read text.

In this case (and, generally, whenever uploading books from the Internet Archive), no conversion should be necessary because files can be imported directly to Commons from IA. Under "Download Options" on the IA page, the file can be directly downloaded in djvu format (with, as would be expected, a much larger filesize than the current 2 MB); there's also https://ia-upload.wmcloud.org/, a tool that streamlines the process of copying books from IA to Commons. I've uploaded the new file at c:File:Tag or The Chien Boule Dog (IA).djvu, and have created a new index (mostly copied from the existing one).

For some reason this file doesn't seem to have an existing text layer. I don't know why that is. Shells-shells (talk) 05:47, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@Oswallt: All the online converters I'm aware of are of so poor quality I generally recommend against using them. Local programs are of better quality (the best in that regard being DjVuLibre) but are not user friendly, and lack the convenient ability for adding an OCR text layer. For that reason I would generally recommend that you request help creating DjVu files at the Wikisource:Scan Lab where people who have made their own tooling for this can do the job.

That being said, I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. At a superficial look, both the file at File:Tag or The Chien Boule Dog.djvu and the one at File:Tag or The Chien Boule Dog (IA).djvu look fine. You mention problems with small-caps… Do you mean that the OCR text is of poor quality in those passages? Or is there some other problem with the files? The image problem you mention are almost certainly due to excessive compression: File:Tag or The Chien Boule Dog.djvu is just 1.96 MB, which is less than a single photograph from a modern consumer camera and the book contains 168 such images (~12kB per page). Compare with File:Tag or The Chien Boule Dog (IA).djvu which is 115.9 MB (~685kB per page), which is a more normal size (except it seems to have been generated from the same scans so that file size is probably inflated). Xover (talk) 05:49, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@Xover The problem is that the typesetting in c:File:Tag or The Chien Boule Dog.djvu is simply off (which is why I uploaded the new version). Look at page 10, for instance. The text content is far too sharp compared with the scan quality of other page features; if you zoom in, you'll notice that the text is heavily aliased even though everything else is soft-edged. In the word "Stationers'", the apostrophe is blurry but the text is sharp (as if the OCR engine didn't recognize the apostrophe, which is what I assume happened). There are obvious machine-reading errors on the page: "Bv L. C. Page & Company", "Ptinted by", and of course the bottom is just a garbled mess of failed OCR. If you look through some other pages, especially those with images, you will find obvious errors that are simply too silly to mention. The tiny filesize is also indicative of heavy processing.

In my view, the original scan was clearly run through OCR, and the OCR output was then used to replicate the original formatting so that a heavily compressed version could be produced. Shells-shells (talk) 06:18, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells, @Oswallt: That looks like the result of running a Google PDF through some of the online PDFtoDjVu converters, and is why I do not recommend them. I found the original scan images (still scanned by Google, so not too great quality) at HathiTrust and generated a new DjVu from them at File:Tag (1909).djvu. Take a look and see if that's any better? If that looks ok we can move the existing transcribed pages over to that, and, I would recommend, then propose the old (bad) files for deletion on Commons.

BTW, this edition was published in Boston. Is that the first publication of this work? Or was it previously published in Canada? I ask in order to clarify the copyright situation: Commons policy considers the copyright status in the US and the copyright status in the country of origin (the country in which it was first published). Since Patriarche died in 1970, if first publication occurred in a pma. 70 country it cannot be hosted on Commons (so we'll have to move it locally here to enWS). Xover (talk) 06:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@Xover That looks great. It's definitely much better than anything I was able to produce. How do we go about the transfer?

As for copyright, it only had that one printing that I can find. If it was printed by a Canadian publisher, I haven't seen it. Although, I admit I don't know much about researching such things. Oswallt (talk) 15:29, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@Oswallt: Should be moved over now: Index:Tag (1909).djvu. Xover (talk) 14:24, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

@Xover Thank you very much! Oswallt (talk) 15:12, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Main namespace display styles affect the layout of my user pages

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments3 people in discussion

Is it possible to block the Display 1,2,3,4 (narrow, wide, column) of the Main namespace from affecting my user namespace layouts of the sandboxes navigator. Ineuw/Sandbox1, etc. When the display is set to 2 or 4, (narrow column) the page contents shift to the right. — ineuw (talk) 10:20, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

File:User_ineuw_sandbox1.jpg — ineuw (talk) 10:28, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: You can set {{default layout|Layout 1}} in each sandbox (well, probably in your transcluded sandbox navigator) to force a particular layout. The layouts are also special-cased for pages with the name "Sandbox" in the User: (and Wikisource:) namespace, so by using a different page name the layouts will not activate. It's doing a case-sensitive comparison so you could even use just lower-case s: User:Ineuw/sandbox1 (although that check might be made case-insensitive at some point, so if you definitely want to avoid the dynamic layouts you'd be better off picking a completely different name). Note that you can keep redirects from the old names so all existing links work; it's just the effective page name it's triggering on. Xover (talk) 12:47, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

@User:Xover Many thanks for the information! — ineuw (talk) 16:53, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

@Xover:Relating to the display {{default layout|Layout 1}}, Am I permitted to place this in the main namespace chapters I uploaded/edited and transcluded? If not, can I place a note somewhere in the header, to this effect? — ineuw (talk) 09:24, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: Yes, the idea behind the multiple layouts is that you can suggest a layout that best suits the specific work. Users can set their own preferred layout, and they can choose whether a per-work layout hint gets to override their preference. If you think Layout 1 is the best for the work you're transcluding then by all means include that suggestion in the form of that template. Just make sure you make the decision based on the needs of the work and not your personal preference for layouts in general (we have some contributors that have extremely strong opinions about one or another of the layouts). Xover (talk) 19:45, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Also note that users can always disable your layout suggestions, and/or use their own choice of layout (from the default options or even a custom one of their own design). So the content must work in all layouts. If it does not, not only will users using other layouts see breakages, it will probably not export and probably will be poor in terms of accessibility. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 19:03, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Adding Special:PrefixIndex to sidebar

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments4 people in discussion

I'd like to add a link to [[Special:PrefixIndex/{{FULLPAGENAME}}]] to the Tools section of the sidebar (like the "What links here" link). Is there a way to do this? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:14, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae I guess you're probably looking for mw.util.addPortletLink() to insert an item into the UI, and maybe also mw.Title.getPrefixedText() to generate the link. Shells-shells (talk) 06:22, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells: Thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for! I don't think I'm getting the loading syntax right, though. User:CalendulaAsteraceae/common.js. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 09:36, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae I think it should work now, take a look at my common.js. My suggestion of mw.Title.getPrefixedText() was wrong; mw.config.get('wgPageName') seems to be the proper way to find the page title. Besides that, the specific syntax used for loading and for addPortletLink() doesn't appear to change the output). Shells-shells (talk) 18:46, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae the way to load a dependency and wait for it to load, then execute something is with mw.loader.using. load() will just load the dependency in the background and then just carry on immediately, before it actually loads. For mw.util this might actually appear to work because lots of things load that and it might well be luckily loaded already...until one day it isn't!

In this case, you actually probably want something like this because you also need to not add the portlet until the page is ready (this is from the mw:ResourceLoader/Core_modules docs):

    // First wait for mediawiki.util to load, and the page to be ready.
	$.when( mw.loader.using( 'mediawiki.util' ), $.ready ).then( function () {
		const title = mw.config.get( 'wgPageName' );
		mw.util.addPortletLink(
			'p-tb', /* portletId */
			'https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/' + title, /* href */
			'Pages with prefix', /* text */
			't-prefixindex', /* id */
			'A list of all wiki pages with this prefix [⌃⌥i]', /* tooltip */
			'i', /* accesskey */
			'#t-recentchangeslinked' /* nextnode */
		);
	} );

—unsigned comment by Inductiveload (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2022 (UTC)‎.

@Inductiveload Thanks for the help and the clear explanation of the code involved!

Out of curiosity, what would happen if a script were to call mw.util before it had loaded? Would it simply fail to execute? Shells-shells (talk) 03:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

@Shells-shells: You'd get an error message about mw.util.addPortletLink not being a function in your web browser's javascript console and the link wouldn't show up in the sidebar. Xover (talk) 07:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload, @Shells-shells: Thank you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:41, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Floating left text with everything else centered

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I'm grasping at straws to get this to work:

with KYRA SCHON
CHARLES CRAIG
BILL HEINZMAN
GEORGE KOSANA
FRANK DOAK
and BILL "Chilly Billy" CARDILLE
A.C. McDONALD
SAMUEL R. SOLITO
MARK RICCI
LEE HARTMAN
JACK GIVENS

The words "with" before KYRA SCHON and "and" before BILL should be hanging to the left of everything else, while the rest of the content is in the same vertical position. PseudoSkull (talk) 14:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull I think {{Overfloat left}} may be just what you're looking for. Shells-shells (talk) 18:30, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Use {{fqm}} e.g.

with KYRA SCHON
CHARLES CRAIG
and Bill
etc.

Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:33, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Each that we lose takes part of us;

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

This page showed up on Special:LonelyPages even though clicking on it pulls up Each that we lose takes part of us, which was linked on a number of pages. What's going on with that? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 08:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

It is the final ";" in the title, the page with the ";" still exists (see https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Each_that_we_lose_takes_part_of_us;&action=history) but for some reason the ";" is stripped away. I think they should be merged in one page. T238285 is referenced in the history of the page without ";" Mpaa (talk) 12:28, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Displaying literal square brackets

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

Let's say I want to publish a biography by an author whose name is name is "John Scouler" and his works are signed as initials inside square brackets "[J. S.]". I cannot figure out how to display the square brackets in Wikisource.Klarm768 (talk) 19:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Like this? [J. S.] Mpaa (talk) 22:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Or use [, which is a little ugly but would work, especially in a template, if you especially didn't want the brackets to be blue: [J. S.] Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:25, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Or, [ J. S. ], which is the way I’ve done it for DMM. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:40, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I apologize to all. It was a brain fart. My problem with the brackets was due to my trying to "Search and Replace" in which strings the square brackets caused problems... Thanks for your responses... Klarm768 (talk) 01:34, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

'Transcribe text' script termination

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I would like to add to the end of the Transcribe text script, to terminate in the textbox and in the browser window. Is there a way I can copy the script to my namespace and make the change? I ask because I don't know where the script is. — ineuw (talk) 08:56, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: I don't understand what it is you're requesting here. The "Transcribe text" button is now effectively a part of MediaWiki proper, so it's not really a script that we can modify at will. Xover (talk) 08:01, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

'Transcribe text' script termination corrected post

@Xover: Much thanks for the reply. Your lack of understanding is because of my poorly written post, which I rephrased below. I am guilty of not knowing what's where nowadays because of the constant software changes, not just here, but with every software I use.

I would like the Transcribe text script, on termination to place it's focus in the textbox where it pastes the result, and not in the browser window. As a feature request, where would I request this: at Phabricator, or the OCR team? — ineuw (talk) 15:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw at Phabricator, probably under the wikimedia_ocr project. What you are looking for is also somewhat similar to phab:T286501. Also I'm about 70% sure it used to focus the edit box so maybe it's just become broken. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 21:09, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: Thanks so much for the reply. I just needed to know where to go. — ineuw (talk) 01:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Updating files

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments3 people in discussion

Esme Shepherd (talk) 19:28, 7 June 2022 (UTC) I am still having trouble loading updated files.I reported this some while ago but nothing has been done yet to correct this. It should be a simple operation but once again my update file becomes File:Fileicon-pdf.png and my file has disappeared. Surely there must be some way of correcting this because it is making life more or less impossible for me. Once again I have to load the file with an amended name and start editing all over again, losing much work in the process.

@Esme Shepherd, commons:File:Fileicon-pdf.png is on the commons, and please note that it's not .PDF icon but .PNG. — ineuw (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC) I should have said that it replaces the header to my file. To see it, go to Moral Pieces in Prose and Verse 1815.pdf. Yes, this file does exist, at the moment I can go to it whenever I wish and the index is still accessible from it. However, due to the corruption, it may disappear and I am not going to use it further. This corruption is clearly embedded in your systems and really ought to be addressed.

@Esme Shepherd The file seems to be damaged. And please remember to sign your posts. — ineuw (talk) 03:49, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

There are several files on the commons, all good except your copy. The good file is already being/was proofread here on Wikisource. Please search this site. — ineuw (talk) 04:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw, deleting the index you left over orphans. Mpaa (talk) 06:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

The last of these, File:Moral Pieces in Prose and Verse, is my replacement (The date is not part of the title anyway}. My point is that File:Fileicon-pdf.png does appear to be a rogue file and in my view ought to be wiped. Can you give me an assurance that if this happens again, which seems very likely, and File:Fileicon-pdf.png infiltrates another of my uploads, it will be removed. Esme Shepherd (talk) 05:17, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Mpaa, @Esme Shepherd: Need to get some rest. I will delete the .png file on the commons and clean up here everything. Just please bear with me. — ineuw (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Is this cover page "illustrated"?

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Hello,

I am trying to figure out what to do with the cover page of the book I am working on. I read on the help page that a cover can be considered blank "unless illustrated". What counts as an illustration? Do the flowers on the frame of the cover page count as illustrations? Can I consider the cover page as being blank or should I try to copy its design? If the page needs to be considered "with text", I would also appreciate a pointer on how to deal with making the flowered frame, as I have no idea where to start.

In advance, thank you for your assistance,

Sincerely, --ElMagyar (talk) 07:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

ElMagyar: This would be considered “illustrated.” See this for an example of a cover page which is not illustrated. The usual method for dealing with such cover pages, as in this case, is to upload an image of the whole page, without transcribing the text. Formally speaking, you could create an image which includes only the frame, and overfloat the transcribed text (using, e.g., {{overfloat image}}). For interested third parties, the cover can be downloaded here. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:09, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Thank you very much, @TE(æ)A,ea.! ElMagyar (talk) 05:17, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done ElMagyar (talk) 09:54, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Download does not include the entire book.

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I just finished transcluding my first book, Tag, and when I click the download link it only downloads the first part instead of the whole book. I'm not sure what I did wrong. Oswallt (talk) 12:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Oswallt: It should work now. That is what the {{auxTOC}} is for: allowing downloads, when there is no real table of contents in the work originally. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
@TE(æ)A,ea. Yep, it's working now. Thanks! Oswallt (talk) 13:50, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

incorrect order of pages

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

The transcription of: Page:Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China. Page:Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China.djvu/243 has an incorrect order of pages (error in the printed book or happened during digitalisation). The correct order would be:

page number in Wikisource /correct page number in the book

242........................234 ok

245........................235

246........................236

243........................237

244........................238

247........................239 ok

248........................240 ok

How can the order be changed? Ion Tichy (talk) 14:50, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ion Tichy: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. In the DjVu file (and hence, presumably, the printed book) it looks like logical page number 234 follows page 233 as it should. Ditto for the other pages I spot-checked. Could you explain a bit more about the problem you're seeing? Xover (talk) 06:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

The order of pages is incorrect after page 234. On page 234, the presentation of (trading) companies ends which is indicated by the decorative sign. A new chapter should begin at the next page.

The source of the digitized book is likely this one: Twentieth century impressions of Hong-kong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China : Wright, Arnold : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive. Here you can see that even pages are on the left, and uneven ones on the right. Following after page 234 is page 238, then page 236, than page 240.

If you think of the printed book, it has individual sheets which are bound together to make the book. On each single sheet the front page has an uneven page number, and the back page has an even number. What I believe is that one sheet (the one with page 235 (front)"Hongkong Industries" and 238 (back) "text and Sugar Refinery") was bound incorrectly. If you move this sheet one page back, it fits.

What has to be done is the exchange the order of the two Wikisource pages 245/246 and pages 243/244.

I hope it is clear now. Even for myself it is tricky, I used small pieces of paper with page numbers on front and back for visualisation. Ion Tichy (talk) 10:20, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ion Tichy: Ok, I think I got it. I've uploaded a new version of the file with the page images at DjVu index 243–244 (pp. 237–238) swapped with those at 245–246 (pp. 235–236). DjVu index 243–246 are now pp. 235–238 in sequence. I have also shifted the Page:-namespaces pages around accordingly so those should now match the page images in the (updated) scan. And, yes, keeping this stuff straight is challenging at the best of times. Xover (talk) 18:21, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Perfect, thank you. Ion Tichy (talk) 13:49, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

'What pages can I validate, etc.' gadget

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I have the above gadget selected in my 'Preferences' and until recently it worked fine, but now it doesn't seem to work at all. I use Firefox but have also tried Edge with the same result. Chrisguise (talk) 05:27, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

@Chrisguise: Hmm. It seems some recent changes to the HTML spit out by PRP's pagelist have broken it. I have on my list a todo to completely rewrite it (as an extension of the work on the transclusion checker), but I won't be able to start looking at that until this weekend at he earliest. Xover (talk) 06:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the update - looking forward to it being back in service. Chrisguise (talk) 11:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Help with representing formatting

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I was just working on proofreading this page and I noticed that this particular work seems to use some kind of spaced text in lieu of italics (see for example the Latin phrases on that particular page). I'm not sure how this should be reproduced. I don't think it should be omitted entirely, since the authors made a conscious decision to format these bits of text, but I also don't think it would be faithful to the original to use italics. I'd be grateful if someone more experienced could lend me their thoughts on this. Many thanks, -Mh7kJ (talk) 21:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I've just found Template:Sp, which seems to be what I'm looking for. -Mh7kJ (talk) 22:45, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, {{sp}} is what you need. Take care with punctuation. If it abuts the last letter, then put it outside the template. If there's a space before it, then inside. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:21, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

File:Prevention of Bribery Ordinance 1970 (Cap. 210).pdf

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hi, I've just uploaded File:Prevention of Bribery Ordinance 1970 (Cap. 210).pdf, in which the chapter number should be Cap. 201 (instead of Cap. 210). Can someone help to amend the file name before I create the index page? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 14:07, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

@廣九直通車, done, see File:Prevention_of_Bribery_Ordinance_1970_(Cap._201).pdf. You can move the file to rename it (see "More" dropdown in the right top of the page. Mpaa (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

section markers on divided pages

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

I have used section labels in the past, although it was some time ago. However, they did work as far as remember. I have now recourse to them again and was somewhat disconcerted that the tosection="label" was being ignored. On searching past advice, I came across the suggestion that the label needs to be included on the page twice. I did this, and, lo and behold, tosection="label" now works. I am somewhat puzzled as to (a) why this is necessary, and (b) why this advice is not being given on the help pages. Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:05, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

@Esme Shepherd: Two section markers should not be necessary. On which page did you run into this problem? Xover (talk) 16:49, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

See Help:Transclusion#When the section ends part-way through a page. What you need to include in the section is the part of the page you want to display. See my changes to Page:Moral_Pieces_in_Prose_and_Verse.pdf/18 and Moral Pieces, in Prose and Verse/The Storm at Midnight. Mpaa (talk) 16:49, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for looking but I see now my misunderstanding. I was working on the marker being a dividing line that one goes to and from but it is actually a section label. Therefore, the section labelled is included with the instruction 'to section'. The part of the page before that label also needs its own label, to mark it for inclusion and not the section which follows. Sorry to have bothered you, but it's been a long time. I did finally find an old example of mine!

Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:16, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Help with large tables

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Help is needed from anyone who is comfortable with large wikitables; especially those split across multiple pages. The Indexes in question are Book of Etiquette, Volume 1 and The History of the Standard Oil Company, Volume 2. Five pages pending in each index for a complete proofread. Ciridae (talk) 13:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Errors on Index:A Treatise on Painting.djvu/196, 245 and 262

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

Page:A Treatise on Painting.djvu/196 - did not transclude
Page:A Treatise on Painting.djvu/245 - page number at the bottom transcluded as "H" rather than II
Page:A Treatise on Painting.djvu/262 - image missing

Please be advised that the above pages have issues. Maile66 (talk) 19:04, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66 I've just adjusted pages 195 and 196 to split the reference across two pages using the "follow" parameter. Formatting multipage references can be tricky, but it is generally possible with ref and section tags.

For your ~~third~~ second point, note that the marking at the bottom of page 245 is probably not a page number but rather a w:signature mark, which are often alphabetical characters.

P.S. I presume you mean "transcribe", not "transclude"—these pages are not currently transcluded to mainspace. Shells-shells (talk) 03:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC); edited 03:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I meant transcribe. Thanks. I'll leave this open, because of the existing problem with 262. Everything else has been taken care of. Maile66 (talk) 12:02, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66 Image now added, I missed that page somehow. Sp1nd01 (talk) 13:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Good, then. We have the entire work validated. Thanks for your assistance. Maile66 (talk) 13:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Adding Babel CSS to a page

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'd like to use the Babel CSS page for {{userbox-level}}. Does TemplateStyles allow using pages from sister projects? If so, what's the appropriate syntax to use this page? If not, is there another way to access it? (I realize I could copy the CSS to a template-specific style page, but this seems inelegant.) —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 10:35, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Crimes Ordinance 1971: Sidenotes within table?

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

I'm now working on the Crimes Ordinance 1971, in which page 11 and page 12 involves provisions using sidenotes that span through the two pages. While it's fortunate that no major format breakdown occurred, it seems that both sidenotes and block center don't work for such situation (well, I guess that's the reason why nowadays lawdrafters are moving away from side notes). How can I deal with that part of the text? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:56, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've solved this by using indentation to push the sidenote text contained in {{Outside L}} into the table.廣九直通車 (talk) 07:55, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Statutes of Canada, Victoria 31, Part 1 request for help with index

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The index file for the Statutes of Canada, 1867, 31 Victoria is currently missing two pages. Page:Statutes of Canada, Victoria 31, Part 1.djvu/88 and Page:Statutes of Canada, Victoria 31, Part 1.djvu/89 both are duplicates of pages 68 and 69 respectively, when they should consist of pages 82 and 83. An alternate, correct source for the file is available at https://www.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.9_08050_1_1. I do not know how to fix the file without losing already done pages. I’m mender? :/ (talk) 01:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I’m mender? :/: Wikisource:Scan Lab exists for just such tasks.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:43, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the help. I will consult the scan lab I’m mender? :/ (talk) 14:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Comus (Rackham)/Part 3

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Half way down(ish) the style stops. It stops in the middle of a {{ppoem}}. I thought it to be a case of too much processing on one page, so I split the original Part 2 into Parts 2 and 3 (for smaller pages) but the problem still persists.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:43, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

~~@RaboKarbakian Does the style stop in the same place as before the split? If so, you might get better results from splitting the work into chapters.~~ Looks like the issue is that the index styles rely on adding the class cpoem, and some of the content doesn't have that class. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:52, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Fixed. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 07:08, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the Validation! and the fixing, tho' it makes no sense that those styles, in the not included headers and footers in the Page namespace would affect the display of an untagged area in the middle of {{ppoem}} in the Main namespace. I left those tags in the header and footers of the page namespace because the content of those pages are displayed within those tags in Main. Or, they were never closed except where the Parts ended. So, fixing is what I came here for (Thanks again!)-- perhaps making sense can be scheduled for a very near future?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:30, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Table-of-contents formatting at Pounamu : Notes on New Zealand Greenstone

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

In this work, the formatting in the original and in the transclusion is different: see Pounamu : Notes on New Zealand Greenstone and Page:Pounamu, notes on New Zealand greenstone (IA pounamunotesonne00robl).djvu/10. How can this be fixed? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:32, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Fixed by using a proper table and not worrying about needless gimicky dot leaders. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

{{dtpl}} is beautiful in many ways. It is easy to use, the results are stunning, etc. {{dtpl}} is ugly in one big (very large) way. It makes a whole new table for each time it is called. Inductiveload explained this to me, and the table usage part made sense to me and I stopped using it. The main reason I am commenting here is that IL also wrote a script that will convert {{dtpl}} into {{TOC begin}} dotted toc templates, which are also beautiful but use only one table. That script is here: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Inductiveload&diff=prev&oldid=11778303#toc_to_toc_conversion

Also, for what it is worth, that page rendered correctly for me to see. It makes me wonder if my page was truly broken.... Internet magic?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 16:02, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Categories by dates

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Should we add categories by dates like c:Category:Days by day? Chinese Wikisource also have these categories.--Jusjih (talk) 20:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

What would be the practical use case for the child categories of this category? We don't categorise books and other works by a particular date on the Western calendar, and Wikidata would be the better place to find other authors who died/were born on a particular date. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Display options nl.wikisource

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hello,
I have a question about the Dutch language Wikisource. We used to have a number of display options in the left menu bar to select a number of layout options just like you have here on en.wikisource. However, a few days ago they suddenly disappeared. The body text is now displayed along the whole page overlapping the page links. See for example s:nl:Architectura/Jaargang 5/Nummer 4/De kathedraal van Peterborough.
Does anybody know what happened?
Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 08:35, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vincent Steenberg: I'm not aware of any recent changes that should affects this in MediaWiki. nlWS loads this functionality through s:nl:Mediawiki:Common.js, which in turn loads s:mul:Mediawiki:PageNumbers.js and s:la:Mediawiki:Layouts.js. None of these have changed recently; but on the other hand none of these have changed for way too many years to have kept up with technology changes. I'd suggest nlWS imports enWS's version as a Gadget instead, but although it's been somewhat better maintained it is still a big buggy and not really easily portable to other Wikisourcen. In other words, it needs to be debugged locally on nlWS by someone of a technical bent. Xover (talk) 12:01, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. I'll contact the writer of the file you mentioned. Other suggestions are still welcome. Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 18:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Tranclusion of pdf377 - A dictionary of the Book of Mormon.pdf

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Page:A dictionary of the Book of Mormon.pdf/377 There is a message on this page, "This page cannot be fully transcribed because the page scan is faulty." Can this be fixed? Maile66 (talk) 23:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66: The source file from which this transcription is made was replaced after transcription had started. The wikipage at position /377 used to correspond to a page in a scan that had problems, but after the scan was replaced it corresponded to a blank page. I just marked the page as "Without text" (and deleted the contents). As it happens the same was true for the cover: the old scan had text on the outside cover, but the new version doesn't, so I marked that too as "Without text". Xover (talk) 08:18, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Maile66 (talk) 10:27, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

There is an error in download to epub for the content on Megalithic Monuments in Spain and Portugal

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The download to epub fails when I try to upload to Google play books —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.166.56 (talk) 18:52, 11 July 2022

I just tested and the downloaded ePub looked fine here. Are you sure whatever problem you're seeing isn't on Google's end? --Xover (talk) 07:15, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Index:A Satyr Against Hypocrites - Philips (1655).pdf

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

@Chrisguise: this is one of yours. Index:A Satyr Against Hypocrites - Philips (1655).pdf is a very brief 25-page work. Some of the pages look OK. But some of them look odd in their format, such as Page:A Satyr Against Hypocrites - Philips (1655).pdf/9 I would estimate that about half of the 25 pages look odd like that. Should I validate them like that? Please advise, thanks. Maile66 (talk) 00:35, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi there. The oddness was caused by the fact that for those pages which have sidenotes, I had not specified which side they are on (e.g. {{sidenotes begin|side=right}}). I've been through and corrected all of the effected pages. The work still doesn't transclude very well - I probably need to have another look at it. Thanks for your efforts validating this work and some of the others I've done. Chrisguise (talk) 01:05, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

OK. I'll finish up the validations. Thanks for the quick reply. Maile66 (talk) 01:19, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Corruption when uploading new versions of Files

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

The corruption I have complained about before is still active and I am still unable to make any minor amendment to an uploaded file. I have been trying to avoid the necessity for this but unfortunately fate intervened and it became necessary. Files are still being replaced by Fileicon-pdf.png, even though I have been assured that this no longer exists. My only resource is to reload the file with some trivial amendment and a new name. There is therefore now a file Poems Sigourney 1834 (redundant) and a file Poems Sigourney, 1834, which is the one I will be working on. Both of these are in Category: Lydia Sigourney Poetry. Is there really no way that this ridiculous situation can be rectified? Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:48, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Incidentally, as this appears to be the only method now available to me for uploading new versions of files, is there anywhere I can put old redundant files? There is at least one other of these floating around and I'd rather not have them cluttering up authors' categories. I understand a file does have to be categorised; is this correct? Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:07, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

All Small Caps for A.D. & B.C. in 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica

Latest comment: 2 years ago10 comments2 people in discussion

Some time ago some people decided to represent small-caps for A.D. and B.C. in EB1911 using the {{smaller}} template e.g. A.D. so that it copies as capitals. But the resulting font size is not the same as small-caps and the font looks thinner than using {{small-caps}} e.g. a.d. which displays the text correctly (and is consistent with other uses of small-caps) but copies as lower-case. A better solution is to use {{asc}} (All Small Caps) e.g. A.D. which displays correctly and still copies as capitals. So could a robot please be setup to convert all instances of {{smaller|A.D.}} & {{sm|A.D.}}; {{smaller|B.C.}} & {{sm|B.C.}} in 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica to {{asc|A.D.}} and {{asc|B.C.}} respectively. Thanks! DivermanAU (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

@DivermanAU: Sure, that should be fairly straightforward. Can you specify which pages should have that replacement applied? Only mainspace pages under Special:PrefixIndex/1911 Encyclopædia Britannica? Or are there a set of indexes whose associated Page:-namespace pages also need modifying?

A bot can be set to work on a set of pages specified in one of several ways. A page name prefix ("All pages whose name begins with ...") is a convenient one. All pages in a given category is also straightforward. There are other possibilities if the selection of the pages to work on is more complicated. Xover (talk) 05:09, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Xover: - The target pages are all 29 volumes of the EB1911, so "Page:EB1911 - Volume 01.djvu/xxx" ... "Page:EB1911 - Volume 29.djvu/xxx" DivermanAU (talk) 05:31, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Doing… Xover (talk) 06:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Wow - that's fast work @Xover:, I see the pages have commenced being modified already, thanks very much! — DivermanAU (talk) 06:21, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Done @DivermanAU: Please spot-check the results to make sure nothing went wrong. Xover (talk) 11:52, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Xover:, I've checked a few of the modifications and they look perfect! I did notice a few cases where A.D. is close by another abbreviation using the {{sm}} template "A.H." ("Anno Hegirae" - the Muslim data system). So could I please also have {{small-caps|a.h.}}, {{sc|a.h.}}, {{sm|A.H.}} and {{smaller|A.H.}} modified to {{asc|A.H.}} in EB1911. This will improve consistency. Also, there are a few cases of {{sc|a.d.}} & {{small-caps|a.d.}} and {{sc|b.c.}} & {{small-caps|b.c.}} can these be modified to {{asc|A.D.}} and {{asc|B.C.}} respectively too. Thanks again, I appreciate your work. DivermanAU (talk) 21:08, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Doing… Xover (talk) 21:32, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Done @DivermanAU: Please spot-check, etc. Xover (talk) 22:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

That is great work @Xover:. I've checked a few changes and they're perfect. Thank you so much. DivermanAU (talk) 23:01, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

lr x rl

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Why does {{ts|writing-mode: vertical-lr}} produce the same result as {{ts|writing-mode: vertical-rl}}? See my sandbox. The first one should rotate left to right, while the second one right to left. -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:38, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

I think it has a different meaning than what you are assuming: see [8] and the examples. Mpaa (talk) 08:29, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Ah, now I see, you are right, thanks. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:33, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Connecting translations to their original language editions?

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

I'm confused about how best to link translations and their original language editions. I'm trying to link with The Works of Voltaire/Volume 36/The Law of Nature but I'm not sure what's the recommended way to do so. Should I just add a plain interwiki link (as I have on the English page, but not on the French one yet)? And/or should I also create (one or more?) Wikidata items, and add sitelinks there? What about the {{Interwiki-info}} template recommended by Wikisource:Translations? Help or advice welcomed. JesseW (talk) 18:01, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Generally it is best to use wikidata where they are both editions / translations wikidata items of the same underlying work wikidata item. It should then be able to automatically link to both wikipedia and between wikisource languages from each. MarkLSteadman (talk) 20:39, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

OK, I think I've got this set up properly now. Here's the work item: wikidata:Q113133073, and the two editions I've found are linked from it. I'd love you or someone else to look it over and make any suggestions or corrections you notice. JesseW (talk) 23:37, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

That looks right to me. Of course the wikidata entries can be expanded with more information but that is the idea. If we do have a versions page with multiple translations or editions you can link the work wikidata item to the versions page. One improvement I did was I added the translator and language has edition field on the work page since that can be useful if there are multiple different translations with the same title.MarkLSteadman (talk) 02:04, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Help editing a book for transcribing

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hi all, I am new to proofreading and want to make the book "Modern cookery, in all its branches" avaliable to people.

However, on the page it says the "source file must be fixed before proofreading", so I have stopped doing anything and want to reach out for some help as I am not 100% sure how to fix this. I am not sure how to fix the problematic pages/ add missing pages.

I have looked on the Internet Archives and it looks like a cleaner upload of a different addition is avalaible, if that helps at all: https://archive.org/details/moderncookeryin00actogoog/mode/2up

Any help or signposting would be grand. Jamzze (talk) 17:26, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the linked file on the IA is also problematic. I have checked just the first 100 pages and there is repeated page 44 in the place of page 54. However, somebody skilled might use pages from one of these copies and add them to the other one. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:13, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Is "R." the same contributor as "W. J. M. R."?

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

In the "Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography," I now have urgent need to decide disposition of signature "R." This signature is not listed in any of the contradictory and poorly conceived lists of contributors. I would like to redirect all of "R.'s" signatures.
"R." is the contributor of 53 biographies... far-and-away the most prolific contributor with an "orphan" signature. "R.'s" subjects are not confined to any particular era, nationality, or language. "R.'s" subjects do share features of professionalism and innovation in arenas of science such as geology, invention, engineering, astronomy, physics, mathematics, mechanics. In this regard, they reside quite akin to the contributions of signatory W. J. M. R. Rankine is consistently listed in all three rosters. They both were early adopters of our modern definition of "physics."
I lack the skills or credentials to demonstrate whether Rankine had been signing "R." elsewhere. Perhaps the "R." contributions were retreads from earlier works. Such a demonstration would be sufficient for me to ascribe all of the "R." contributions to Rankine. Klarm768 (talk) 13:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

@Klarm768: Unless we find some more apparent evidence, I would hesitate with such an undoubted identification of the signature with the author. Just today I have been considering a similar case with the signature G. G. in The New Europe magazine, and I decided to found a separate author page Author:G. G. where I only noted the possibility of the author’s identity. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:57, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: Before considering a separate author page, I should hope that there is some more sophisticated rules of likeliness or unlikeliness. Rankine has 176 contributions in IDUB; R. has 53. Is there language analysis that can rule in or out the likeliness of a match. Rankine contributed countless scientific writings. Is there an index of signatures of authors published in 19th century journals and magazines? Klarm768 (talk) 14:46, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Issue now with Braces not displaying in table when transcluded

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

The EB1911 List of Contributors pages e.g. 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Vol 1/Table of contributors (which is transcluded) had been displaying braces OK for years. But some time ago (maybe a month or 2?) the braces no longer displayed. When first loading the page (or when refreshing it) the braces display for a split-second but then disappear (apart from a few pixels). The individual pages that are transcluded e.g. Page:EB1911 - Volume 01.djvu/25 do display the braces OK. The same behaviour exists on Windows 10 (using both Edge and Chrome) and on a Chromebook. I tried increasing the column-width for braces in the table used to display the contributors {{EB1911 contributor table B/entry}}, but this had no affect. Anyone have some ideas about why the braces don't display correctly when transcluded? — DivermanAU (talk) 01:05, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Well, this is certainly a bug, but I'm having trouble tracking it down. There's some weird interaction between our dynamic layouts and the braces (which are using math markup under the hood), but it's not straightforward and it wasn't triggered by any local changes on enWS (not that I can tell at least). I'll keep digging, and I'm polling people who may have ideas about what's going on, but for now the only workaround would be to disable dynamic layouts in the preferences (I'd suggest just living with the missing braces for now, but…). Xover (talk) 09:33, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

When I open the page, I can see the braces for a moment, but they almost immediately disappear. However, they do not disappear completely, I can still see small fractions of them, as if the cells shrank and they had not enough space to be fully displayed. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:55, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

How do I handle this? Index:Addams - 1902 - Democracy and Social Ethics.djvu

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I have been validating Index:Addams - 1902 - Democracy and Social Ethics.djvu The two last Adv at the bottom right-hand side are still waiting to be proofed. I have contacted proofreader User talk:Ciridae, who has replied that they do not proof ads. Is it OK for me to finish up the remainder of this file and validate it without having the ads proofed? Maile66 (talk) 11:17, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, see Help:Beginner's_guide_to_proofreading#Optional. Mpaa (talk) 13:07, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Styling of blanks and complicated charts

Latest comment: 2 years ago9 comments2 people in discussion

Index:COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card CDC (8-17-2020).pdf has proven to be a challenge. I've marked both the pages as problematic (the text content is otherwise proofread). I did some styling already in the style sheet.

Page 1 has a chart with a dotted line across only 3 of the cells, as subcells, to represent the difference between "Product Name/Manufacturer" and "Lot Number".

Both pages also have blanks with words under specific sections of those blanks. Is there a template for this sort of thing already?

@Inductiveload:, or anybody else: any opinions? PseudoSkull (talk) 16:47, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull:I have tried something with one of the cells by dividing it into two. What do you think? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:14, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Feel free to revert it if it does not suit you. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:15, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull:As for the the words under specific section, I have tried to solve it with {{ditto}}. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: Hey, thanks, do you think there's anything we can do about the dotted line in the top cell of Chart 1, and the Name etc. blanks above the first chart? PseudoSkull (talk) 14:48, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull:I have reworked it at my sandbox. I did some more changes there, like distinguishing 3px lines and 2px lines instead of unified 4px lines in your table. The code of the table is quite more complicated, so have a look if you like it. I can gladly rework the following page in the same manner. However, I do not think there should be the blue logo in the top right corner, as the original document has black and white version of the logo (with white background instead of blue). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: Thanks for doing this, the page is now marked as proofread. I believe the logo being colored is necessary because the original logo is colored. These vaccination cards were printed in millions, so I believe they were trying to save printing costs etc. by leaving the logo uncolored on the card. According to some experiences I've had here in the past, enWS will leave colored versions of photos in if the reason they were left uncolored was purely a technical limitation. PseudoSkull (talk) 16:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull: 1) Even if they printed coloured logo in black and white, we should not mislead readers by giving them information that the documents had it printed in colour. 2) However, in fact it is not coloured logo printed in black and white, it is a black and white version of the logo. Coloured logo has dark blue background, while our document's logo has white background. But blue can never be printed as white, it would be dark grey So it means it is a different version of the logo. Many institutions have different versions of their logos for coloured print and for black and white print, and this seem to be such a case. Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

(UTC)

@PseudoSkull: Notice also that the "CDC" letters are in black, not in white, so it really is not a result of black and white print of a coloured logo. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Questions at Help talk:

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Since it's unlikely that anyone has the following pages on their watchlist:

Fish bowl (talk) 05:53, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Responded to the unstruck item at the page. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Four Pages with Musical Notation in Index:A Dictionary of Music and Musicians vol 1.djvu

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Index:A Dictionary of Music and Musicians vol 1.djvu has four pages not proofread with some musical scores on them. Could someone add these please and complete this work that has been here since 2009. Languageseeker (talk) 23:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I am currently working on completing all four volumes of the Dictionary, including adding the missing scores. At the time I put these in that status I was still learning how to do some things in Lilypond knowing that I would come back to these once I had worked it out. Just be patient for a few more weeks and it will all be done and ready for validating. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:39, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle Sorry, I didn't realize that you were working on this. I found this in the archive of the POTM archive and thought it was a pity that it was so close to completion, but not quite finished. Take your time and thank you. Languageseeker (talk) 12:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Book completely in Page namespace

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

I found a book that is completely in the Page namespace, it doesn't have a djvu source. Well, the source at Internet Archive is linked from the author page. It's from 2006, so maybe that's how it was done back then? Would it be possible to add the djvu so it has the page scans for proofing? The book is Darby O'Gill and the Good People

Oswallt (talk) 16:34, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@Oswallt:

Done, see Index:Darby O'Gill and the Good People by Herminie Templeton Kavanagh (1903).djvu. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:30, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@Oswallt: You may also want to take a look at Help:Match and split (and don't hesitate to ask for help: M&S can be a bit intimidating). Xover (talk) 17:34, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I have not used M&S before, so I'll holler if I get stuck.

Oswallt (talk) 17:55, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Interwiki pages not exporting via WS-Export

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Hi there, before we raise a bug on Phabricator, I thought it worth asking if anyone knows why / if WSExport does not manage to export Interwiki pages within books, at least some of the time. Likewise, if anyone knows of books with Interwiki pages where these are exported correctly by WSExport that would be good to know. (I quickly checked Phabricator to see if there are bug reports, but couldn't see one.) Here is an example of a book not working: la:Ora Maritima. (cc @Persimmon and Hazelnut:) JimKillock (talk) 17:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

~~Another example: The seven great hymns of the mediaeval church. Given there are multiple examples on several wikis~~ I will file a bug report. --JimKillock (talk) 14:53, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

@Persimmon and Hazelnut: There are issues with the nested navigation in The seven great hymns of the mediaeval church which will prevent export of the sub pages (everything needs to be linked on the top index page.) Do you have other examples? --JimKillock (talk) 15:04, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

No, I noticed the issue with Ora Maritima and then went looking for the discussion where I'd been advised to use iwpages. "Seven great hymns" is the example I found. Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 15:14, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

OK, I added the bug here. I would avoid making major changes to books to workaround this bug until we know what is going on, in case it is easy to fix, eg is an error on our side, or easy to fix on theirs. --JimKillock (talk) 07:54, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Uploading files > 100MB to Wikisource

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The file uploader refuses to upload files exceeding 100MB to Wikisource as it (unlike Upload Wizard in Commons) does not support chunk uploads. Unfortunately, the file I want to upload is not suitable for Commons because of copyright reasons. Is there any tool enabling to upload such files to Wikisource? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: c:User talk:Rillke/bigChunkedUpload.js. It's a pretty technical tool, but not outside the realm of what normal users can handle. Alternately, you can always request one of our more technical users do the upload for you (I'm always happy to do so, but I can't guarantee any particular response time). Xover (talk) 09:12, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Great! I have just tried it and it works well. Thanks very much. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:58, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Downloading

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Attempting to download “The Necessity of Atheism” by Brooks. Caught in a loop: hit “download” drop down shown for selecting format (I’ve selected Kindle and on other attempts mobile device, makes no difference), drop down shows up asking if I want to download, I hit it again and again get the drop down asking for selection format, etc. and again and again. Whatssup? MJWielosz (talk) 17:11, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I followed the directions you gave (specifically: Opened The Necessity of Atheism (Brooks), clicked on "Other formats" under "Download/print", which took me to an export page for this book, where I selected "MOBI (for Kindles)" under file format and left all other options to their defaults, and clicked the "Export" button), and was able to successfully download the .mobi file, so I think you need to provide more information: what browser are you using, what OS, are you using anything funky like the browser "private mode" or a VPN, etc. — Dcsohl (talk)
(contribs) 19:12, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Uploading new versions of files

Latest comment: 2 years ago7 comments2 people in discussion

As I have pointed out a number of times over the last year, I am unable to upload a new versions of any file. I have just made the mistake of trying to do so and, as usual, all I got was File-icon.pdf. I reverted and uploaded my new version under a slightly revised name, this loaded but is headed by File-icon.pdf. I may have made the mistake of uploading an unaltered file, so I made a patch and tried again successfully but had to copy the coding for 68 pages from the original file, something I don't intend ever to do again. The corrupt files are Pocahontas and Other Poems New York.pdf (the original) and Pocahontas and Other Poems (New York).pdf, which is headed by File-icon.pdf. The are both in Category:Lydia Sigourney Redundant Files. As things stand all I can do in future is leave any errors uncorrected unless someone can at last do something about these upload corruptions. May I plead for help on this issue again please. Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:24, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

@Esme Shepherd

First thing, next time you need to copy text, ask for help, there are tools to do it with minimal manual work. No need to copy manually page by page.

That said, I have seen your requests but you have not answered to follow up questions that other users made to better understand the problem. So how can we help, without more details?

Regarding the files you mention here, in their metadata they point to IA but the PDF there is different from yours (it ihas more pages and it is smaller in size). Are you making any change before uploading? If so, I suspect the PDF tool you use. Why are you making changes? What happens if you upload the IA PDF file as is? Mpaa (talk) 20:04, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I suspect the PDF tool you use: your PDF file displays properly in the browser and seems fine, it might be that something is added to the file, that triggers a bug in MW side, see e.g. task T297942 Mpaa (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

This one is more similar to your case task T299521, so you are not alone ... Mpaa (talk) 20:33, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your considered response. I am not a technician, so the only details I have given in the past are names of files, as I have done this time. I am using PDF Professional Suite. The main reason for this is that I download my pdfs from archive.org and sometimes these arrive with blank pages; page 147 is a favourite. To correct this I make screen shots of these pages and convert them into a stand alone pdfs, which I can then insert. These are in general too large and I therefore shrink them before conversion and then crop them in the pdf editor. Obviously if I use the IA PDF file in such cases, the blank pages will remain but otherwise, this is an option.

If what you say is correct, I can continue happily if (1) you can point me to the tools that copy multiple pages, thus as you say saving me hours of work, and (2) you can tell me where to put spare files that need deletion. Esme Shepherd (talk) 12:22, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I see now that your pdf file has no text layer. As the original pdf has it, I assume it might have been lost during your pdf manipulation.

The simplest solution to 'copy' text and move forward with your work is that you use the 'Transcribe text' feature when in edit mode (or one of the OCR buttons in the edit bar), so that you get the text in your edit window and you can the proceed as usual.

Keep in mind that there is also Wikisource:Scan Lab where you can ask for support in fixing files.

Mark the files you want to delete, at commons. Some admin will take care there. For the corresponding Index/Page ns here at WS, you can mark the Index page for deletion. Mpaa (talk) 21:09, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

For the 'Transcribe text' feature, see Help:Gadget-ocr and mw:Help:Extension:Wikisource/Wikimedia OCR. Mpaa (talk) 21:14, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Need Help

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

How do i find a legit person that can help me put my page up. 2603:9000:A204:BD00:E0B8:E0F3:C0EB:657C 17:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

If you need somebody to help you, then you are at the right place. However, can you be more specific what you need to help with? You may also be interested in WS:What Wikisource includes. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:05, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Rosa mulhollands

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Once a week, series 1, Volume X - Bracken Hollow - part 2. ROSA MULHOLLAND GILBERT .

HELLO Mark Mulholland

Great grandson of Lady Rosa Mulholland Gilbert. Her Brother William was my Great grandfather.

I write here to ask if it could be possible for part 2 to be published so I may draw from this to build my great aunts collection of articles books plays letters to Mrs Tynan and other materials I am collecting for a future book of my family's honored individuals discovered in ancestry.com.

I am a neophyte writer so I stumbled across this in my searches for Bracken Hollow in Wikapedias information on Charles Dickens "Weekly" publications and her contributions there. Could someone write to me regarding articles buried in the vast records of the World Class Charles Dickens work. markmulholland1953@gmail.com Yours very sincerely, Mark Mulholland. Mark Mulholland

Pinging User:Levana Taylor who has worked on Once a Week enormously if she wants to have a look at the 2nd part of the article. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:39, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Help

}}

William Broderip

I have recently deposited a quantity of books/ledgers which were found in a pub, The Bull, Whitwell, Herts. They are now with Somerset Heritage Centre. The majority of the 15 volumes relate to 'The Manor of Cossington', and includes a small number-3 I think, relating to a William Broderip . They are ramblings on history, nature, religion, medicine, geology, geography, plus views on foreigners etc-all with an index. I can not be certain if this is the same man but the dates of mid 19th c seem about right. Perhaps someone can verify this if in the Somerset area.

Parsing of MediaWiki markup in text that gets fed to a Lua module

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

It seems like text which gets passed through a template to a module doesn't have all the MediaWiki markup-parsing applied beforehand. A demonstration of the problem:

{{c|This is one paragraph.

This is another paragraph.}}

This is one paragraph.

This is another paragraph.

{{FreedImg
 | file = missing
 | caption = This is one paragraph.

This is another paragraph.
}}

An image should appear at this position in the text.

This is one paragraph. This is another paragraph.

{{FreedImg
 | file = missing
 | caption = <p>This is one paragraph.</p>

<p>This is another paragraph.</p>
}}

An image should appear at this position in the text.

This is one paragraph.

This is another paragraph.

Is there a way to not have this problem? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:20, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: In short, "no".

The parser and all the components of the stack are really quirky and they all treat things like whitespace differently. So in your example you're probably seeing a random combination of the effects of p-wrapping (sometimes, but not always, wrapping text in p tags), template argument processing (strips leading and trailing whitespace), Scribunto argument processing (which does the same but slightly differently; and Module:Arguments which does its own thing), and whether or not the produced output ever gets fed through a function that happens to apply the parser to it.

In other words, it's essentially impossible to noodle your way to predict how any given bit of code will behave in these regards. You have to try something, see how it behaves in various scenarios (with as many real-world test cases as you can contrive to have), and then adjust for breakage.

One approach used in templates here is to always put a newline after an opening p or div tag supplied by the template (and vv. for the end tag) to force the parser to trigger p-wrapping, because at least then the behaviour is somewhat consistent and predictable. For Lua code that tries to be fancy it may be that having it manually pass chunks of wikicode through the parser (frame:preprocess()) is the best way to achieve this. It's ugly and inefficient, but may be better than fighting the parser. Keep in mind though, FreedImage has a lot of baggage and wasn't necessarily "designed" so much as "evolved": it's entirely possible that there are a lot of instances in the wild that actually depend on the quirky behaviour and will be hard to both identify and fix. Xover (talk) 05:58, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

@Xover: Thank you, that's good to know! My main use case here is actually that I'm trying to get Module:License up and running, so I'll see what works. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 01:58, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Printing output of searches

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Is it possible to print the pages of "What links here" search into a text file instead of PDF? I am using Linux Mint, have no real printer, so the default output is pdf. — ineuw (talk) 02:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

— ineuw If you need the links, you can just save the page. That is the same as putting those pages into html instead of pdf. Recently, there was a list I wanted that was hidden from the printer via css. I copied and pasted it into a simple text file, then printed that and it made a pretty good list for all that crackery. If I remember my printerish correctly, and learned it right the first time, stuff sent to the printer gets converted to pdf anyway, (maybe pdf to postscript) and the printer handles that so "Print to" sends you to printer software. There was a time when one of the nice things about Linux was that it was still possible to make a text file on it....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:18, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Correction, that text file jibe had been directed to emacs not any other os.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Much thanks and consider to categorize this question under the Category of Category:Aging Wikisourcians and their stupid questions. — ineuw (talk) 02:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

P.S: I should buy more RAM. — ineuw (talk) 02:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't think this is supposed to be a red link

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

There is a red link in the "Title" at the top of Index:The Federalist (1818).djvu. I suspect that this is supposed to be a blue link, but I don't know how to fix it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:52, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

@WhatamIdoing. Red links always work as a red rag to a bull on wikimedia-projects! But unfortunately they don't disappear on their own. Someone has to create a page in the main namespace of Wikisource. We call this "transclusion". There is a nice introduction to that: Help:Beginner's guide to transclusion. Perhaps the best way to do it, is look at a place, where all the transclusion is done already. If you want to start the job here, try to find a good example, that is more or less comparable to this work.

The work has more than 600 pages. So it should be divided in parts/chapters. I see that this work does not have a proper contents-page, so that makes things a bit more difficult. Am I right? If yes, you could create a content list yourself on a talk page (for instance the talk page of the Index), to start with, while you are proofreading. And when it's finished bring it to the main namespace.

When this is the first time you do a transclusion, you have definitely chosen a difficult job to start with. But we all have done it for the first time. And there are a lot of friendly people here to help you, if needed. --Dick Bos (talk) 19:43, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

@WhatamIdoing: The title link on the Index: just points at the mainspace page where the text will be transcluded once it has been proofread. So a redlink there is perfectly normal like most other redlinks. Xover (talk) 20:18, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

So, everything should be (at least) yellow pages before I need to worry about this? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:55, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Roughly, yes. In practice, a lot of people will start transcluding to mainspace as soon as they have the front matter Proofread, and then do each chapter (or other sensible unit) as it's finished, so that they can better plan structure, check formatting, and so on. It's not necessary that all (or even any) pages be actually Validated before transclusion. Xover (talk) 04:51, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm happy to postpone this for another year or two. ;-) WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:42, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Link to the next work in a series in the header

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I feel like I asked this questions some months ago, but I can't find the thread. Is there a way to link to the next installment of a series in a header? Many magazines have series split across multiple issues and it would be helpful to find a way to link to the next one in the header. For example, see The Strand Magazine/Volume 22/The Hound of the Baskervilles/Chapter 1 Languageseeker (talk) 14:53, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker

I have been doing this using the 'series' template in the early issues of The Strand Magazine, and am planning on using it to link together all of the related series which will be starting up soon (like the Stories from the Diary of a Doctor, for example).

See for example The Strand Magazine/Volume 2/Issue 11/Illustrated Interviews, or indeed (given that you're talking about Sherlock Holmes) The Strand Magazine/Volume 2/Issue 11/The Five Orange Pips. Qq1122qq (talk) 15:02, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Limited insets

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

On the page Page:Scenes in my Native Land.pdf/47 the insets are not shown to the full depth that is intended. In fact nothing I have tried will correct this. The text is correct but adding gaps or extra spaces makes no difference. This is the only instance of this problem I have ever come across and I'm wondering what has gone wrong. Can anyone enlighten me, please? Esme Shepherd (talk) 09:59, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

This has been corrected. Thank you for that, although I'm not sure why it happened. Anyway, hopefully it was a one-off. Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:22, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Unidentified unit symbols

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

May I ask for help with the unit symbols at Page:Essay on the mineral waters of Carlsbad (1835).pdf/45? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I think they are this symbol: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pfund.svg. I am not sure if there is a unicode point for it... MarkLSteadman (talk) 14:13, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

The Unicode character is ℔, which (in most fonts) doesn’t connect on the bottom, thus the symbol image. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Great, thanks for help! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Beyond my skills

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments2 people in discussion

I have assembled a spreadsheet that I had hoped to be useful for the entire "Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography." It is composed of 25,746 line entries. I do not care to learn how to turn this water into wine. I would like someone with extensive TOC expertise and patience to rescue this and make publication to Wikisource come to pass. Klarm768 (talk) 18:51, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Klarm768: If you can post it somewhere in CSV (or other) form, I can get some code to convert it to enWS formatting. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:00, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I understand the theory, but there are those who have done an enormous, multivolume TOC. I will not turn over hundreds of hours of work without some expectation of competence. Klarm768 (talk) 23:07, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Klarm768: There isn’t an on-point, direct reference to your project—most completed biographical dictionaries are of a smaller scale, such as A Biographical Dictionary of the Celebrated Women of Every Age and Country (my work) and The Lives of the Most Eminent English Poets (which had an existing ToC). With the sheer number of entries in your work, a classification scheme like that of 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica would probably be best, as the number of entries for Celebrated Women (at “only” 679) is already quite taxing on the front of loading the page. Your thoughts? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
  I have no concept of "classification scheme". You seem to have significant background and could perhaps form a clearer opinion by inspecting a sample... e.g., the first hundred entries in CSV (or other form of your preference). (I've wondered whether a CSV could be pasted into a sandbox.) Klarm768 (talk) 09:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
  Klarm768: You can create a personal sandbox (i.e., User:Klarm768/Sandbox) to post them. I can then use those entries to show you examples of what is possible, and what you might desire. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 11:21, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Author index pages, periodical index pages or short story collection index pages

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

How can one add a list of all of the short stories an author has written to an existing author's page? Same question for a periodical.

Also, can periodical index information from other sites be included here on a magazine page? For example, FictionMags index to fiction periodicals. 2600:1700:D591:5F10:973:BEE5:BD91:2B84 19:43, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

If you know what short stories you want to add, you can make a section for them on the author's page. See for example Author:Louisa May Alcott. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Please look at the discussion page for Author:Louisa May Alcott. I added the list from the Internet Speculative Fiction Database and FictionMags index to the discussion page.

My edit page layout changed and cannot edit as is.

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

The page edit area including the header and footer is identical in height to the area of the .djvu page image when in side by side edit mode. So now, I have text followed by a large empty space to the bottom margin, double height header and footer and when I need the toolbar tools, I must scroll up to access them. Uploaded three images of what I see: File:220926 empty vertical space.jpg File:220926 edit space with blank blue areas .jpg File:220926 Side by side editing is the same.jpg

I also pasted the code on the css talk page. — ineuw (talk) 16:40, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I figured out that the edit window overall size was changed to 100vh (100 = 100%, vh = vertical height) but 100vh of what? perhaps I can increase the height of other ProofreadPage element to reduce the textbox area? — ineuw (talk) 10:22, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

— ineuw Have you tried the new theme? Maybe your style sheet will work as expected if you put it atop the new theme. It is really really easy with the new theme to get rid of the navigation bar. Edit window size is so so much bigger without navigation. Although, now that I think of it, maybe that is how I lost the basic wikistyle....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:31, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Both are the same, the (vh) 'vertical height' setting is based on percentage. 100vh = 100% of a known point, and this point is what I want to know. The problem with such a setting is that users use laptops, and large desktop monitors, get different results. — ineuw (talk) 05:26, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ineuw: The vh is a percentage of the viewport height: that is, a percentage of the visible webpage content inside your browser window. An element that is 100vh high and 100vw wide will always fill the visible part of the browser window, but not exceed it. Xover (talk) 15:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I am studying it at the moment. CSS/HTML vh and vw also accepts formulas to convert the viewport dimensions to fixed measurements. — ineuw (talk) 16:13, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

OpenSeaDragon Map

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Could someone download the image from [9]? It's used on Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 9).djvu/28. Languageseeker (talk) 04:21, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@Languageseeker Head over to https://dezoomify.ophir.dev and paste in https://image.library.pitt.edu/iiif/2/pitt%3ADARMAP0421%2Fdatastreams%2FJP2/info.json; you should be able to download the image just fine. If you use Firefox or Chrome, may I suggest installing the dezoomify extension? It's quite a convenient tool for downloading tiled images like this one. Shells-shells (talk) 05:25, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I do not recommend to replace the current image with the one linked above, which is quite damaged. Besides the stains (which are quite possible to be photoshopped out) there are some other damaged places like the lower left corner of the image and others. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 14:32, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Original translation

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I read you can add an original translation of a work if that work has scans on Wikisource in its original language.

However, I don’t know how to actually add that translation, because the instructions I saw said that uploading a work to Wikisource begins with uploading a scan, then creating an index page for that scan, and then transcribing the pages of that scan from the index page.

Should I create an index page without a scan? Or is the translation entered into the index page of the work’s original language?

How do I see the index page for a work?

Thanks very much —unsigned comment by Juliushamilton100 (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2022‎ (UTC).

@Juliushamilton100: If you are new to wikis and Wikisource you may want to hold off on trying a translation as they can be a bit challenging.

But the gist is… First make sure the original language work exists on the relevant language version Wikisource, and has been fully proofread. Then you create an index page here connected to the same scanned file as that used for the original transcription. Then you enter the translation into each page here (with some room for pragmatic adaptation due to differences in sentence structure between different languages).

An index page is just a wikipage in the Index: namespace that, among other things, lets you provide a mapping between logical page numbers and the physical offset (page image) in the PDF or DjVu file containing the scan. For example, if you have the scan in File:War and Peace (1869).djvu, you will have the index at Index:War and Peace (1869).djvu, and, once the pagelist in the index is filled in, you can access each individual page at Page:War and Peace (1869).djvu/1 (typically the cover), Page:War and Peace (1869).djvu/2 (the inside cover), … Page:War and Peace (1869).djvu/123 (the page at position 123 in the file, which might correspond to the printed page number 100). Once all the pages have been proofread we combine the individual pages into suitable chunks (typically a chapter or similar subdivision) for presentation: Translation:War and Peace (the prolegomena, table of contents, etc.), Translation:War and Peace/Chapter 1, Translation:War and Peace/Chapter 2, … Translation:War and Peace/Appendix 1, Translation:War and Peace/Index, and so forth.

As you can see this is quite involved, and the tools are not all that user friendly, which is why I'm recommending getting to know how things work in a slightly less ambitious project first. Xover (talk) 14:22, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Talk:London Telegraph interview with Kaiser Wilhelm

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Could anybody with more time have a look at the question at Talk:London Telegraph interview with Kaiser Wilhelm, please? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:43, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Our Happy Land of Canaan

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There is a problem with {{overfloat image}}, which happens (I think) when the image is used at resolution superior to nominal. In Page:, the image loads normally, and the text fits inside, as it should. In main, however, the image’s size is greatly reduced, and the text juts out and below the page. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 17:24, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Code review for Module:PD and associated modules

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I've been working on transferring the more complicated license templates to Lua. As far as I can tell everything's working now, but I'd appreciate some additional sets of eyes on this before I go ahead with the edits. I've added test cases to User:CalendulaAsteraceae/Staging. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 08:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Dated soft redirect categorization is broken

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Whatever mechanism is used to categorize pages using {{dated soft redirect}} seems to not be working. See The Antoninus Agadot in Medrash and Talmud for an example. I don't remember the intricacies of the subst syntax that is used here, but perhaps someone might be able to figure out what needs to be changed? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

@Beleg Tâl: The template needs to be subst:ed. {{subst:dsr|[[target]]}} —Xover (talk) 19:25, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

:o okay. Is that new? I seem to recall that the substing was all done behind the scenes. Regardless, I'll update the template documentation. Ty! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:26, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

NVM the documentation says so explicitly, I must just be rusty :p —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Link including newline

Latest comment: 2 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

I am wondering how to have a link with a newline contained within the link. Does anyone know how to do this? Mucube (talk) 03:27, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Figured it out: you put the   tag in the link Mucube (talk) 03:48, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

I tested it on Page:A Chinese Biographical Dictionary.djvu/920 and it is not working. Any help would be appreciated. Mucube (talk) 03:51, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mucube: The answer here is "you don't". For prose text we do explicitly not reproduce the line breaks, so that paragraphs can reflow freely. Hard newlines inside paragraphs in OCR text are usually removed (some people preserve them to ease proofreading, but it can cause problems in some contexts so I don't recommend it), and we certainly don't force line breaks with   or similar inside running prose. We do, of course, preserve paragraphs, so these should be separated by a single blank line (that is, hit the return key twice), or, for sections that have extra vertical spacing in the work, two blank lines. Xover (talk) 04:05, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for the answer. I thought they were supposed to be a part of the text. So do I just remove the new lines? Mucube (talk) 04:08, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think there's any big reason to change existing pages unless they render incorrectly, but it's good to keep in mind for future proofreading. Shells-shells (talk) 04:11, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Changing name mistake

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I uploaded 3 volumes of a novel and have added full text. These are Duty and Inclination 1.pdf, Duty and Inclination 2.pdf and Duty and inclination 3.pdf. Whilst I was preparing these for transclusion, viz proof-reading etc., I discovered that Duty and Inclination 3.pdf had been renamed Duty and Inclination. Volume 3.pdf without my knowledge. Wanting consistency, I rashly and mistakenly requested this be changed to Duty and Inclination Volume 3.pdf. I now have this file without any of its pages (i.e. its index). I still have access to Index:Duty and Inclination. Volume 3.pdf and I can work with this although I cannot move between pages. If my mistake cannot be rectified (that is returned to its original condition) can I be reassured that nothing further will occur to these files so that I can continue with my work? I see that File:Duty and Inclination Volume 3.pdf does indicate that my Index is in use by wikisource. Esme Shepherd (talk) 12:20, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

I've moved the file back to "Duty and Inclination. Volume 3.pdf" as that is what all the pages had been created under when you uploaded the file under that name. And moving between pages is restored. The redirect that was hiding on Commons was the reason you weren't able to move between the pages under the moved filename. The Index: namespace knew where to look, but the Page: namespace didn't. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:28, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I am quite happy to work with it now with this name. It makes no difference in the long run! Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:05, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Pages that might require tables.

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There are four pages in the current MC that seem to require some tables to properly format. Could someone take a look at them: Page:Works of Thomas Carlyle - Volume 06.djvu/311 Page:Works of Thomas Carlyle - Volume 06.djvu/243 Page:Moby-Dick (1851) US edition.djvu/528 Page:Moby-Dick (1851) US edition.djvu/529? Languageseeker (talk) 22:26, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Copyright Infringement Warning

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I have been warned of possible copyright infringement of material I have edited and posted. The material is a collection of regulations, some of which I have translated into English from Japanese. I stated that I was the copyright holder on the talk page, but the warning texts remained. I don't understand what constitutes copyright infringement. Please let me know the reason for warning. Eyagi (talk) 06:09, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

You have posted those in a different Wikisource domain than this one. You need to ask your question at oldwikisource, rather than here. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:24, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank for your advice. Where is Oldwikisource? "Is it still working?" Please teach me. Eyagi (talk) 23:22, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

@Eyagi: It looks like you're gotten the English Wikisource (en.wikisource.org) mixed up with "OldWikisource" (just wikisource.org). The main difference is in the subdomain. I'm not old enough to know the exact history behind it, but I believe OldWikisource was the original wiki that Wikisource was hosted on, which used to be a multilingual outlet for source texts. Take my word on that with a grain of salt though.

The important thing to remember is that you should posts texts that are in English at en.wikisource.org. wikisource.org with no subdomain is for more obscure languages that have no Wikisource community associated with just them: for example, texts in Tagalog are posted there rather than at tl.wikisource.org which does not exist. However, if for example you wanted to post a text that was in Japanese, you would post it at the Japanese Wikisource since that Wikisource project does exist, at ja.wikisource.org.

Hopefully all that made sense, because I feel like I was rambling. TLDR: Post texts in the English language, like "Collection of Imperial Japanese Military Comfort Station Regulation", here at en.wikisource.org, and try to remember to type the en subdomain into the search bar so you don't find yourself mixed up with Oldwikisource again. PseudoSkull (talk) 18:29, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I understand. Eyagi (talk) 06:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Need help reading the signature lines on a letter

Latest comment: 2 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

What I have so far:

⟨the part of the grim⟩ war depends upon obtaining intelligence of the enemy's motions; I do most earnestly entreat you and General Clinton to exert yourselves to accomplish this most desirable end. It is vital.

I am with severe esteem.

[...] G. Washington

What is between "severe esteem" and "G. Washington"? How my mind parses it:

"DSer Ya / most obey! K: lon!"

???????? PseudoSkull (talk) 00:52, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I think it's "sincere esteem".

As for the rest... most obedient servant? It is very contracted, so probably some fairly standard phrase (for the period). 8582e (talk) 02:09, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

In RL I read bad hand-writing for a living.

"I am with sincere esteem,

"Dr. Sir, Yr

"Most obed^t H. Serv^t"

Or expanded: "I am with sincere esteem, Dear Sir, your, Most obedient, humble Servant" Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:47, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle: Must be a fun job. PseudoSkull (talk) 16:48, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

A quick revalidation.

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Page:A_complete_course_in_dressmaking,_(Vol._1,_Introduction)_(IA_completecoursein01cono).pdf/116 Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:33, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:51, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Page:A_complete_course_in_dressmaking,_(Vol._1,_Introduction)_(IA_completecoursein01cono).pdf/82

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments1 person in discussion

~~Why are the captions at different sizes? When the styling for the one and the one generated by templates directly should be identical?~~ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:46, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

They are different because the styles I set aren't identical. You have to set font-size to 83% to match.. I'm too tired right now. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

page missing

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Page מ is missing 147.161.15.134 18:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

From what? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:02, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Two notes with a hard-to-read word

Latest comment: 1 year ago10 comments5 people in discussion

I can't read the signature line cursive in these notes. My brain wants to read the French one as "llave" and the English one as "llair" but those can't be right. These are from File:Merry-Go-Round (1923).webm, at 04:28. @Beeswaxcandle: ? PseudoSkull (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Don't know if this helps, but here's the American film details for 1923 film Merry-Go-Round . **(https://catalog.afi.com/Film/10734-MERRY-GO-ROUND?sid=74c76eb8-2da1-4245-8575-59ae372373dd&sr=15.796814&cp=1&pos=0)

There are 6 different tabs of various information data. Maile66 (talk) 04:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Just finished the entire transcription of the film, which is now available at Merry-Go-Round (film). I found nothing else in the film that seems to resemble what's written at the bottom of these notes, or that would give me a hint as to what it says. I consider the film proofread because this isn't an important element of the storyline, but any input on what it might say is much appreciated. PseudoSkull (talk) 22:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Maybe "Claire"? (I suspect it's the name of one of Franz's many lovers from earlier in the film that's never mentioned by name, since he is kind of a womanizer like Don Juan.) PseudoSkull (talk) 22:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull: To me it seems like "Cllaire" with double LL, though I do not know such a variant of the name. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 23:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

The first two letter is a capital I. So, with the second being an l, the most likely name is Ilona (Hungarian origin), but could be Ilana (Hebrew origin) or Ilena (British origin). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:50, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I think a Hungarian name is most likely, because this film is set in Vienna, Austria. Thanks. PseudoSkull (talk) 13:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

As I see it, the first (or second?) letter is far from being capital I, the shape is visibly

Compare also the capital I in the first line of the English note "I love you". --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:36, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Most definitely not a miniscule letter, as that would be out of style for the period. The only viable alternative is a capital M and something in the order of Mame for the word. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:38, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes. I was thinking M or possibly W. 8582e (talk) 10:12, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

ENTRY ICON

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Can I Put an entry Icon on my desktop for wikisource? 93.107.151.14 15:27, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

If you mean like a shortcut that opens straight into Wikisource when you click, then yes, there's nothing anyone can do to stop you from having a shortcut anyway. Reboot01 (talk) 18:36, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Enough: Index:Sanskrit Grammar by Whitney p1.djvu

Latest comment: 1 year ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Please decide on ONE format for how certain words are formated, They seem to be variously bold, monospace, or bold monospace d3epending on page.

ONE documented method please, so I can fix the pages up conistently. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:56, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Colored backgrounds

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I've been working on Index:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu, and now all of the text has been transcribed. In the underlying book, there are several sections where they inserted a biography of some individual pertinent to a chapter. Most of the time, these interrupt the flow of the chapter. They have colored backgrounds on the pages, like the green on Page:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu/191. Should I be adding a colored background to match the original? If so, what is the best way to accomplish this because the biography inserts are two-page affairs? Imzadi 1979 → 21:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't do the colour background, but I would separate the inserts by transcluding in sections with a {{page break}} template in between. Kind of what I've done with The Prince and the Pauper. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:58, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Full-page photos that interrupt paragraphs

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Related to the above question on #Colored backgrounds, Index:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu has various locations where a paragraph continues across a page break, but the next page has a full page photo (or a page full of smaller photos) that interrupts the flow. Page:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu/442 ends with a hyphenated word that picks up on Page:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu/445, and Page:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu/443 and Page:America's Highways 1776–1976.djvu/444 contain photos. (Most of the inserted biographies referenced in the other section do the same.)

Is there anything that can or should be done about this in our resulting output, or is this just something we have to live with? Imzadi 1979 → 21:37, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Leave the pages transcluded in the sequence as published, but for the split word you'll need to use templates to put it back together again. The {{hws}} and {{hwe}} pair will work fine and the word will appear in full as the first word on the second page. If there's a link that goes across a page-break, then use {{lps}} and {{lpe}} instead. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:01, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Page:Canadian poems of the great war.djvu/15

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Something's wrong with "Smythe, Albert E. S." and I don't know enough about {{TOCstyle}} to fix it. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:16, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

CalendulaAsteraceae: Fixed. Someone put in the wrong row number in the formatting. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 03:18, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
@TE(æ)A,ea. Thanks! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Error from the OCR tool??

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T324740

"Error from the OCR tool: Image URL must begin with one of the following domain names and end with a valid file extension: upload.wikimedia.org and upload.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org"

i was able to use ocr a few days ago for Page:Ling-Nam; or, Interior views of southern China, including explorations in the hitherto untraversed island of Hainan (IA cu31924023225307).pdf/160. today it gives me this error. RZuo (talk) 04:38, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

@RZuo: The tool seems to be broken currently. I've reported it and hopefully it'll be fixed relatively shortly. Xover (talk) 07:27, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

@RZuo: It should be working again now. Sam Wilson 05:35, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Importing Nahuijs’ translation of Max Havelaar to English wikisource

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I want to do some work on transcribing the 1868 translation of Max Havelaar (oldwikisource:Index:Max_Havelaar.pdf this one), but it’s not on the English wikisource, and I think it should be. What should I do? Should I start anyway, or is there a way to transfer it over? I figured uploading it again would be the wrong thing to do. Thanks! Raketsla (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

There is another copy of the book present in Commons, see File:Max Havelaar; or, the Coffee Auctions of the Dutch Trading Company (IA dli.granth.77827).pdf, so you can create an index page at en.wikisource using this. If you need any help with creating the index page, I can do it. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I created the index page, and I think I’ve got it. You are more than welcome to check, though. Raketsla (talk) 21:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Downloading

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hi there, I have been reading a book I like and wanted to download it as a PDF although I don't see any option for This. Would you mind telling me if where I can find this option?Gocla (talk) 21:59, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello. When you open the Wikisource text that you want to download, you should see a blue "download" button in the top right corner. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Special:DeadendPages and Special:ShortPages without Page namespace

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Is there a way I can get the results of these scans but only done on namespaces other than the Page namespace? Dead-end pages caps out at 5000 results and Short pages caps out at 1000 results. Most of the results are Page-namespace pages, where it's not a problem for them to have 0 bytes of content or to have no outgoing links. I'd like to get a list of pages from other namespaces which meet the criteria. How can I do this? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 00:40, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae see if this is helpful for ShortPages, tweak it as you need: [10] Mpaa (talk) 16:17, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mpaa: Thanks, that's great! Is there a good way to automatically turn the page titles into links? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 00:24, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae Not that I am aware of, except file manipulation once results are downloaded. Mpaa (talk) 18:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

How to handle endnotes in Index:The_Protestant_ethic_and_the_spirit_of_capitalism.djvu

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments2 people in discussion

I am currently proofreading this work, which features endnotes, with the numbering starting again from 1 for each chapter and would appreciate some advice. It seems that these should be handled differently to regular footnotes, which appear at the bottom of the same page where they occur. I've read the FAQs but I'm unsure whether the example given over at Help:Footnotes_and_endnotes#Endnotes_with_anchors is quite reflective of my case.

So, do I actually still include the full note inline, directly after the number, or should I put a "dummy" numbered tag, and then link to it in another section where the endnotes are displayed? The endnotes section alone represents about one third of the total book length, so if I were to move them all inline into the main text as I go, would I then disregard this final section for proofreading & transclusion, to prevent doubling up? Cheers. Helrasincke (talk) 02:52, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Helrasincke: The endnotes example given is more similar to the system in this work (for example), where the endnotes appear at the end of each chapter. I think one solution is to continue the work (as explained in that section) and have the “notes” section divided into sections which are transcluded by chapter. An alternate solution is to link each reference as {{nsl2|[number]|../Notes#number}} and have the entire “notes” section as one long section by itself. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 03:22, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Thanks @TE(æ)A,ea.. Wouldn't I still have to use <refs>...</refs> tags? Or are you suggesting that I manually include all references in the endnotes page? Or perhaps there's an easier way? It seems almost simpler to just include them inline as with regular footnotes, and then transclude the whole lot... Helrasincke (talk) 00:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- Helrasincke: The problem in that case is, in moving the endnotes to be footnotes, that you’re placing material on a page it didn’t start on, which makes proofreading somewhat more difficult. Another method is that used in this work, which works roughly as follows:
 - The reference numbers on each individual page are made with <ref name="Ref 1"></ref>;
 - The “Notes” section is set up with ##Ref 1## before each section; and
 - Transclusion happens in two places:
 All at once, in the “Notes” section; and
 
 On a per-chapter basis, like this:
 <ref follow="Ref 1"><pages index="The_Protestant_ethic_and_the_spirit_of_capitalism.djvu" include=number onlysection="Ref 1"/></ref>
 
 where “number” is the DJVU page number of the “Notes” page with the reference.
- I think that this method is the best for balancing reference availability and ease of proofreading: but the set-up looks rather complicated. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)